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What program has come further along...

KSU is always built on JC talent, and Snyder Knows JC talent. JC guys are quicker impact guys, and if you can get the right ones, they really give you a shot in the arm, if you get the wrong they really can mess up long term development in the program. It is pretty clear that CPR doesn't want to build with JC guys, so the progress will be slower, but hopefully, better.
 
CyCloned said:
KSU is always built on JC talent, and Snyder Knows JC talent. JC guys are quicker impact guys, and if you can get the right ones, they really give you a shot in the arm, if you get the wrong they really can mess up long term development in the program. It is pretty clear that CPR doesn't want to build with JC guys, so the progress will be slower, but hopefully, better.
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It is absolutely worth the risk to bring 10 Juco guys in a year if you can get 4 or 5 david sims. That is the only way those type of athletes are going to come to Ames. There are just as many high school kids that don't pan out in 5 years here. At least the JUCO guys are gone after 2 and quit wasting our time if they don't pan out. it just depends on how much you wanna compete with OU and Texas consistently.
 
GoClones123 said:
I think KSU and Snyder build thier programs differently than ISU. Snyder has always went the JUCO route....all his teams from the past had a majority of JUCO transfers, which works out well for wins now however you saw what happened when Snyder left.....the KSU program was a dominant force for what 8 years, but when Prince came it all fell apart within a matter of a season...this is because they didn't have any developed talent it was brought in from JUCO colleges and i believe Snyder took that list with him.

ISU is doing it the right way by trying to get kids from high school and develop them over a 4-5 year period, which takes longer but in theory they should be the better for it. I think ISU's problem was all the coaching transitions over the past 5 years, kids dont want to go to a topsy turvey program. Give Paul and his staff five years, and I think you will see the difference between ISU and the KSTATE programs.

They are built for winning now, we are building to win in 4-5 years.
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Football knowledge FAIL.
 
2forISU said:
in the last two years KSU or ISU?
Both coaches hired at the same time.
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I didn't realize Bill Snyder had been gone for 3 years and then came back but I see no way to make a valid comparison in this situation because of where KSU had been in the last 2 decades. If CPR had been here for 10+ years and won 9+ games every year, then left and came back 3 years later it would be more relevant a question to me.
 
bellzisu said:
Do you forget that Bill Snyder has coached before??? At KSU too???

CPR is in his 2nd year ever as a head coach. He is still learning things.

Why is this so flippin hard for Cyclone fans. I would think an experience coach like Snyder would turn a program around faster. Wow our fans are stupid.
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Other than I won't call fellow fans stupid I agree totally!!!
 
Palmer said:
KSU already had more material to work with...

DMac/Chiz left CPR ****.
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KSU was in the dumps. They had slow team speed. They had 22 jucos who are mostly gone. Bill has rebuilt a fairly crummy team. He is a better coach than his buddy out West - Dan Hawkins.
 
Tornado man said:
Really? That defense that propelled ISU to a bowl last year, you know, mostly with starters that Mac recruited? Look where we are this year without them.:confused:
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Just stop.

At any other school...Mac would be a joke.....his late dominance over Iowa saved his job....and he underachieved in a very soft North.

In 20 years he will be forgotten.
 
kougar24 said:
Football knowledge FAIL.
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failed at what? Snyder is known for JUCO players, and the team did fall apart when he left. And its known that JUCO players will and can make an impact now rather than some kid outta high school that takes a few years to develop weight and be coached up.....why are you even on the cyclone board, go back to your manhattan board and post there (or better idea, go to the DMACC school football page, there might be one or two guys you'll see on your roster next year)
 
CyCloned said:
KSU is always built on JC talent, and Snyder Knows JC talent. JC guys are quicker impact guys, and if you can get the right ones, they really give you a shot in the arm, if you get the wrong they really can mess up long term development in the program. It is pretty clear that CPR doesn't want to build with JC guys, so the progress will be slower, but hopefully, better.
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There is a lot of JUCO talent in Kansas also. He also knows what JUCOs to put different players at where they can get their grades up, become better players, and be taken care of.
 
2forISU said:
in the last two years KSU or ISU?
Both coaches hired at the same time.
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I see what you are trying to do here, but your premise is wrong.

The end of Snyders first tenure was poor. His recruiting fell apart on him, and the talent level was way down.

But he is still a good coach, and he knows that he can still get some wins in the North Division with limited talent. He recharged his battery, and I think that he knows that if he can just get back to being better than us, Kansas and Mizzu, he can win 7-9 games every year.

Plus, he had a program that was an elite program for a period of time. What CPR walked into was a program that had won 9 games the previous three years, and was two years away from a near winless season. And Iowa State NEVER touched what he did at KSU at any point in our history,

Finally, Snyders job will be easier by default. People can still remember when K State was good, noone can remember 1978, except fans that were around then.

Look at basketball, had we had a decent coach, Iowa State would have been easier to turn around that K State was to build. They had the right people running that program, we didn't. It remains to be seen if CPR is the right person, we really won't know that for at least two more years.
 
Tornado man said:
Really? That defense that propelled ISU to a bowl last year, you know, mostly with starters that Mac recruited? Look where we are this year without them.:confused:
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Aren't we in the same spot we were last year? Close loss to KSU and blowout loss to Iowa?
 
mikem said:
I see what you are trying to do here, but your premise is wrong.

The end of Snyders first tenure was poor. His recruiting fell apart on him, and the talent level was way down.

But he is still a good coach, and he knows that he can still get some wins in the North Division with limited talent. He recharged his battery, and I think that he knows that if he can just get back to being better than us, Kansas and Mizzu, he can win 7-9 games every year.

Plus, he had a program that was an elite program for a period of time. What CPR walked into was a program that had won 9 games the previous three years, and was two years away from a near winless season. And Iowa State NEVER touched what he did at KSU at any point in our history,

Finally, Snyders job will be easier by default. People can still remember when K State was good, noone can remember 1978, except fans that were around then.

Look at basketball, had we had a decent coach, Iowa State would have been easier to turn around that K State was to build. They had the right people running that program, we didn't. It remains to be seen if CPR is the right person, we really won't know that for at least two more years.
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What's that?
 
JUKEBOX said:
I would say Iowa State. Rhoads was brought in a situation far worse I believe than K-State, and made a bowl last year and has stayed pretty competitive with the players at ISU right now.

KSU's record from 2006-2008: (1 different coach)

7-6
5-7
5-7

ISU's record from 2006-2008: (2 different coaches and systems)

4-8
3-9
2-10
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All this so we could reach the next level... The real test of how we have been doing is looking at the Hawks--we were beating those guys and look where we are now! We are going to have to be patient because of all the transitions over the last 5 years. I just hope we can get back to where we were--going to bowl games every couple of years--when we got greedy with this whole "next level" thing.
 
clonedog said:
All this so we could reach the next level... The real test of how we have been doing is looking at the Hawks--we were beating those guys and look where we are now! We are going to have to be patient because of all the transitions over the last 5 years. I just hope we can get back to where we were--going to bowl games every couple of years--when we got greedy with this whole "next level" thing.
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I kind of agree, but it really was time for McCarney to go.

Speaking of which, if given the opportunity right now, who would take McCarney-esque success (6-6, 7-5) and a bowl game on a consistent basis for the next 10-15 years? It sounds good right NOW, but as it did before, I'm sure it would get frustrating after a few years.
 
mikem said:
I see what you are trying to do here, but your premise is wrong.

The end of Snyders first tenure was poor. His recruiting fell apart on him, and the talent level was way down.

But he is still a good coach, and he knows that he can still get some wins in the North Division with limited talent. He recharged his battery, and I think that he knows that if he can just get back to being better than us, Kansas and Mizzu, he can win 7-9 games every year.

Plus, he had a program that was an elite program for a period of time. What CPR walked into was a program that had won 9 games the previous three years, and was two years away from a near winless season. And Iowa State NEVER touched what he did at KSU at any point in our history,

Finally, Snyders job will be easier by default. People can still remember when K State was good, noone can remember 1978, except fans that were around then.

Look at basketball, had we had a decent coach, Iowa State would have been easier to turn around that K State was to build. They had the right people running that program, we didn't. It remains to be seen if CPR is the right person, we really won't know that for at least two more years.
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I hope you are not Jamie Pollard--I don't know if our football program can wait two more years to reach the next level...
 
CloneState1028 said:
I kind of agree, but it really was time for McCarney to go.

Speaking of which, if given the opportunity right now, who would take McCarney-esque success (6-6, 7-5) and a bowl game on a consistent basis for the next 10-15 years? It sounds good right NOW, but as it did before, I'm sure it would get frustrating after a few years.
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You are buying into J.P.'s kool-aid-- assuming Coach Mac could not have taken us to the next level. Look what Iowa now has in K.F.; the dean of the Big 10 West. I suspect Kirk would tell you J.P. showing Coach Mac the door was the best thing to happen to Iowa football in years.
 
clonedog said:
You are buying into J.P.'s kool-aid-- assuming Coach Mac could not have taken us to the next level. Look what Iowa now has in K.F.; the dean of the Big 10 West. I suspect Kirk would tell you J.P. showing Coach Mac the door was the best thing to happen to Iowa football in years.
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56-85

Go ahead and keep trying to build that McCarney legacy.

Many are glad he is out the door along with those hideous uniforms.


Good riddance.
 
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