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dahliaclone said:
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This might've been true had we been below average - bad. We're the worst P5 team in the NCAA and we're trending towards the worst basketball team in school history. He's 100% gone.

You can tell by his demeanor on the sideline and in press conferences... Notice how he doesn't show that much emotion anymore. Doesn't try and argue with refs. Doesn't yell at his players.
 
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Statefan10 said:
When Prohm had arguably the most talented roster in the Big 12, we were above average.
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And there it is again.,..mudding the past. We were "just" above average? No, that's what Wayne Morgan was his last season at 16-14. That's "just" above average. I would hate to think that now, 23 and 26 wins seasons along with a Sweet 16's and conference tourney trophies are now considered "just" above average at ISU. Because then outside of LE and his two fantastic seasons.....pretty much every coach has been "just" above average. And that includes Fred by the way. Do we hold the next coach to that standard also.......or are they going to get the soft shoe, nice guy GMAC treatment?

Before you start talking "metrics" which I really don't want to anymore but just, anyway.......that first year Naz went down and McKay went AWOL(had to practice). Doesn't that count for anything? Still, 23 wins and made the Sweet 16. The second year it took them how many games to figure out how to play without Georges? I forget the exact amount, but that's not me saying it, that is what was said by some of the players explaining the turn around after they won their last 11-13. It all started with the OT win in Lawrence. Doesn't that count for anything? Or does the Purdue loss in the NCAA erase everything from that great year and prove without a doubt.......Prohm sucks?

And even with all that I just re-hashed for the 112,345 time.......you still in the end have to be of the mind that Fred was full blown, 5 alarm guaranteed to do MUCH better than 23/26 wins. That Fred was without a doubt going to do better than "just" 1 Sweet 16 and better than "just" 2 conference tourney championships if you feel the need to insist what Steve did with that roster was "just" above average. And you what......you don't know that Fred would. You CAN'T know that.

So it's up to you......make the case to can him after the last 2 years......you have zero argument from me. But let's not keep throwing dirt on something we all enjoyed just because we are miserable now. Because in the end you seem fairly sure that:

Statefan10 said:
He's 100% gone.
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So what's the point?
 
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CYEATHAWK said:
And there it is again.,..mudding the past. We were "just" above average? No, that's what Wayne Morgan was his last season at 16-14. That's "just" above average. I would hate to think that now, 23 and 26 wins seasons along with a Sweet 16's and conference tourney trophies are now considered "just" above average at ISU. Because then outside of LE and his two fantastic seasons.....pretty much every coach has been "just" above average. And that includes Fred by the way. Do we hold the next coach to that standard also.......or are they going to get the soft shoe, nice guy GMAC treatment?

Before you start talking "metrics" which I really don't want to anymore but just, anyway.......that first year Naz went down and McKay went AWOL(had to practice). Doesn't that count for anything? Still, 23 wins and made the Sweet 16. The second year it took them how many games to figure out how to play without Georges? I forget the exact amount, but that's not me saying it, that is what was said by some of the players explaining the turn around after they won their last 11-13. It all started with the OT win in Lawrence. Doesn't that count for anything? Or does the Purdue loss in the NCAA erase everything from that great year and prove without a doubt.......Prohm sucks?

And even with all that I just re-hashed for the 112,345 time.......you still in the end have to be of the mind that Fred was full blown, 5 alarm guaranteed to do MUCH better than 23/26 wins. That Fred was without a doubt going to do better than "just" 1 Sweet 16 and better than "just" 2 conference tourney championships if you feel the need to insist what Steve did with that roster was "just" above average. And you what......you don't know that Fred would. You CAN'T know that.

So it's up to you......make the case to can him after the last 2 years......you have zero argument from me. But let's not keep throwing dirt on something we all enjoyed just because we are miserable now. Because in the end you seem fairly sure that:



So what's the point?
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No where in my post did I even talk about the first two years of Prohm, so I don't really know what you're talking about.. Yes, we won 23 games in 18-19 but we were also trending to be an 8 or 9 seed prior to us stringing together 3 phenomenal wins in the Big 12 Tournament. That Big 12 Tournament was awesome and was an amazing accomplishment, but let's not act like the team that played in KC was the team that was taking the floor night in and night out during the Big 12 season.

I'd also like to point out that Naz going down hurt our chances for more success than an Sweet 16 run in 15-16, however enhanced our success tremendously for the 16-17 year. Again, I did not mention Steve's first two years for a reason. I also don't think we underachieved in either.

I focused on the other 4 years Steve has been our head coach. Not the years he stepped into a situation where it'd be damn near impossible to have little success.
 
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Cat Stevens said:
Ron Virgil didn’t get a lot of minutes that year.

you might be thinking about Ronnie Harris
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My memory might be off, but I thought Virgil became a sort of 6th man that season. (Harris was in starting lineup along w/ Barry, Jeff, Terrance).

I'm almost certain Virgil was part of the conclusion of that game. Again, I could be incorrect.
 
cyclones500 said:
My memory might be off, but I thought Virgil became a sort of 6th man that season. (Harris was in starting lineup along w/ Barry, Jeff, Terrance).

I'm almost certain Virgil was part of the conclusion of that game. Again, I could be incorrect.
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He may have been. That’s a long time ago. Iowa had really dominated basketball under Olson.

this was a pretty momentous moment for the fans. That team ended up wearing out because they were small and not real deep. Did make the nit, when it mattered though.

Marquette came in and put a stop to that though.
 
Statefan10 said:
No where in my post did I even talk about the first two years of Prohm, so I don't really know what you're talking about..

Again, I did not mention Steve's first two years for a reason.

I focused on the other 4 years Steve has been our head coach. Not the years he stepped into a situation where it'd be damn near impossible to have little success.
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If that were true...then you would have stopped with this:

Statefan10 said:
I'd take that team every day of the week and twice on Sunday over what we're currently watching. I didn't mean it to slight that year's accomplishments because we certainly did accomplish some things that year. I meant it that in 3 of the 4 years Prohm hasn't had the nucleus of Hoiberg players, we've gotten 10th, 9th and 10th in the conference. In the lone successful year we had, we went .500 in conference play and got 6th.
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.....in which I would have simply responded Steve doesn't get even one mulligan(17-18) for rebuild. But you didn't, you added this:

Statefan10 said:
My point was that when Prohm has had a horrible roster, the team is awful (now). When Prohm has had a below average to bad roster (year 3 and last year), we were bad. When Prohm had arguably the most talented roster in the Big 12, we were above average.
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.....which in fact does include he first two years (23/26 wins) that you clearly state are "just" above average. And that is what I took issue with. No need to keep going with this unless you want. We just agree to disagree about the past. I thought I would post this so you do know exactly what I am talking about and that now......whether Steve comes or goes makes no difference to me. I'm just not going to re-image the past as if somehow with Fred's players Steve Prohm denied Iowa State University the Conference champ and Final Four banners it had coming.
 
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CYEATHAWK said:
If that were true...then you would have stopped with this:



.....in which I would have simply responded Steve doesn't get even one mulligan(17-18) for rebuild. But you didn't, you added this:



.....which in fact does include he first two years (23/26 wins) that you clearly state are "just" above average. And that is what I just issue with. No need to keep going with this unless you want. We just agree to disagree about the past. I thought I would post this so you do know exactly what I am talking about and that now......whether Steve comes or goes makes no difference to me. I'm just not going to re-image the past as if Steve Prohm denied Iowa State University the Conference champ and Final Four banners it had coming.
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Yeah during that last quoted message, I was strictly talking about years 3-6, which were the years CSP didn't have any of Fred's guys. His first two years he did tremendously for what he was given and I think it would've been really hard for someone in Steve's position to do much better than he did.

For the last part I bolded, the person you can blame for that is Fred, who left the program at a time where we COULD'VE taken the next step. It's like if CMC would leave today and a new coach would come in and have next year's roster. I'm sure they'd have some awesome success, but not near the success that they would have if the coach that rebuilt the program and recruited those guys stayed on.
 
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Statefan10 said:
Yeah during that last quoted message, I was strictly talking about years 3-6, which were the years CSP didn't have any of Fred's guys. His first two years he did tremendously for what he was given and I think it would've been really hard for someone in Steve's position to do much better than he did.

For the last part I bolded, the person you can blame for that is Fred, who left the program at a time where we COULD'VE taken the next step. It's like if CMC would leave today and a new coach would come in and have next year's roster. I'm sure they'd have some awesome success, but not near the success that they would have if the coach that rebuilt the program and recruited those guys stayed on.
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Pals
 
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clone2003 said:
The team is terrible this year, but Prohm is essentially a victim of his own recruiting success IMO as two of his top recruits (Halliburton and Horton-Tucker) are playing real NBA minutes. Not making excuses, but schools like Iowa State aren't going to have First Round talent on the roster every year - let alone every other year. The roster has a lot of pieces that don't seem to fit together, while also needing to be infused with more high-end talent like Halliburton and Horton-Tucker for us to return to respectability.
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CycloneErik said:
I looked it up a week or two ago. It was stunning.
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Imagine being much worse for 3 years if we somehow have to watch him coach again next year. Nobody will go to see a team lose by double digits every game and look really bad doing it. Theyre going to have to give free pizza and tickets away.
 
Fire Prohm after our final game of the season, that’s what you do. Unless the whispers of him leaving at seasons end anyways are true which would be great, but either way donor money will be there and he will be gone.
 
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