UNI vs. ISU - thoughts/predictions?

[clonedlion]

This is a futile argument. People see what they want to see. People read into quotes in a way that fit their agenda.

The way to beat Purdue was to go small, and the opposite of what he did in the first half. Michigan did it twice and Kansas did it after. Don't think it is stretch to say it was a missed opportunity to take advantage of weaknesses of Purdue.

Regardless, we will see how they do this weekend and moving forward

 

[SolarGarlic]

I am just repeating the rhetoric that was given when he was hired. I have seen that a slower paced, defensive minded team struggles on offense and it cost them games. You put a faster pace in play, similar to Fred and the team plays better. Hence, one can conclude he hasn't changed a lot since Fred. This is fine, but I don't not trust him enough to make in game adjustments to win games against good teams in pressure spots.

UNI is like Iowa football. They aren't going to get 4-5 star kids. Some years are rebuilding because lost seniors or what not, but they always seem to know who they are and how to play their game. ISU and Iowa always struggle with UNI and this year seems like a UNI squad that will challenge for an NCAA tourney birth.

I'm not sure what "rhetoric" you were reading. There wasn't much mention of Prohm being a defensive-minded coach. In fact, it was quite the opposite. The main narrative was that Prohm was a good fit because he was in the same mold as Hoiberg, using space on offense and getting up and down the court. There were some stories as the season progressed that Prohm would focus "more" on defense than Hoiberg, but it certainly wasn't his calling card. It's too bad your assessment is dependent on poor reading comprehension or bad info.

 

[madguy30]

Not sure, but the game plan was clear against Purdue. Go small. he didn't and it didn't go well.

Pretty sure there's also quotes of Prohm wanting to avoid foul trouble/keeping the game close before going to small ball. If ISU hits a few threes in the 1st half and Purdue doesn't come out hitting on all cylinders (which was very different than they'd looked two nights earlier--I was there) it's a tighter game at half and ISU doesn't have as much of a hill to climb.

Keep in mind ISU actually led in that game and could have easily won it if the ball goes the other way, which is how a lot of NCAA tourney games go.

 

[CyTwins]

Not sure, but the game plan was clear against Purdue. Go small. he didn't and it didn't go well.

I'll ask again. Do you think Fred was a good coach?

 

[clonedlion]

I'm not sure what "rhetoric" you were reading. There wasn't much mention of Prohm being a defensive-minded coach. In fact, it was quite the opposite. The main narrative was that Prohm was a good fit because he was in the same mold as Hoiberg, using space on offense and getting up and down the court. There were some stories as the season progressed that Prohm would focus "more" on defense than Hoiberg, but it certainly wasn't his calling card. It's too bad your assessment is dependent on poor reading comprehension or bad info.

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2015/06/toughness-is-prohm-s-key-to-defense/

Agreed that scoring wasn't the issue, but if you notice his first murray state team was good defensively, then the next two were not very good at all. Combine that with the fact that Prohm wanted to make defense and rebounding a priority and he hasn't done that, Thus, they are still playing a high tempo game without the rebounding and D. Combine that with the fact that he has been shown to make adjustments slowly (inserting solomon into starting line up last year or not switching to small ball early enough against Purdue) and it shows a level of discomfort in the coach.

I could be the only one that feels this way, but that does not mean I have bad info or I am not able to comprehend information on the subject.

 

[Psiclone]

I would respectfully disagree. I think it is all there. Murray State and Iowa State has shown he is slow to make adjustments both in games and in seasons and he has already admitted as much in interviews.
What I find interesting is that anyone that disagrees with a coach is considered ignorant, until we all go nuts and want them fired. There were Paul Rhoads backers until the very end, even though folks wanted to seem him go earlier than he did. Those that wanted to make a change were also, "ignorant" and other shots at those folks, such as, not "all in" on the program but looks like they were correct.
You can have your opinion on him. Not sure if you think he is really good, average, or will become legendary, but I haven't seen it yet.
I would be happy to discuss strategy and X's and O's if that makes you feel more comfortable in my position.

Good point; where is there evidence of his coaching abilities? Certainly not in beating KU on their floor last year to break their win streak, or in winning the Big XII tournament. And, certainly no evidence at Murray State. I mean, other than a school record-tying 31 wins (including a school-best 23-0 start), a top-10 national ranking and an appearance in the NCAA Tournament.

Furthermore, when has he ever gotten a player to improve to their potential? (Isaiah Canaan and Cameron Payne (both 2 stars out of high school), both drafted by the NBA, Payne in the first round, did it all on their own and their improvement had nothing to do with Prohm's coaching.)

 

[clonedlion]

Pretty sure there's also quotes of Prohm wanting to avoid foul trouble/keeping the game close before going to small ball. If ISU hits a few threes in the 1st half and Purdue doesn't come out hitting on all cylinders (which was very different than they'd looked two nights earlier--I was there) it's a tighter game at half and ISU doesn't have as much of a hill to climb.

Keep in mind ISU actually led in that game and could have easily won it if the ball goes the other way, which is how a lot of NCAA tourney games go.

But a lot of times, the team climbing that hill is exhausted by the time they get to the top. Can't blame them for falling short, when they had to exert all that energy to get back in the game.
The question isn't if teams hit shots or not, but if the coach put the best game plan together. everything said go small, yet he didn't until they were down big.
The idea of worrying about foul trouble before anyone was in foul trouble just isn't logical. Folks were complaining about Tyler Cook few games back. He got 3 fouls and Fran kept him on the bench for something like 27 minutes that game. What is the point if he doesn't play at all? Another reason I don't think Prohm was on top of it.

 

[ComCY]

You make a good point. Although, we know BDJ had issues and probably disrupted that team and its chemistry in a way it didn't need.
I'll give you that ISU won in AFH, but I would suggest that folks not be happy with the idea that their coach in the round of 32 said, he "was waiting" to make a change and "didn't know" why things weren't working. I would ask everyone at least acknowledge this is poor coaching and game management. Especially in the ncaa tourney.

I'm gonna counter you and say Hoiberg was a bad coach because he let the team and locker room get that way by not enforcing rules and a culture. Letting McKay skip practices, etc.

Prohm has that part nailed down. Not to mention recruiting. His Xs and Os may not be as good as Hoiberg, but that's the easier part of coaching to improve.

Prohm is a helluva leader and character builder.

 

[ComCY]

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2015/06/toughness-is-prohm-s-key-to-defense/

Agreed that scoring wasn't the issue, but if you notice his first murray state team was good defensively, then the next two were not very good at all. Combine that with the fact that Prohm wanted to make defense and rebounding a priority and he hasn't done that, Thus, they are still playing a high tempo game without the rebounding and D. Combine that with the fact that he has been shown to make adjustments slowly (inserting solomon into starting line up last year or not switching to small ball early enough against Purdue) and it shows a level of discomfort in the coach.

I could be the only one that feels this way, but that does not mean I have bad info or I am not able to comprehend information on the subject.

Except ISUs defense under Prohm is better than it was under Hoiberg.

 

[cyclone87]

Wow this thread got derailed. I wish posters would stop needing got compare Fred and Prohm all the time. Fred was very good for ISU bball and Prohm has done well so far too. Big test for this young team coming up Saturday

 

[madguy30]

But a lot of times, the team climbing that hill is exhausted by the time they get to the top. Can't blame them for falling short, when they had to exert all that energy to get back in the game.
The question isn't if teams hit shots or not, but if the coach put the best game plan together. everything said go small, yet he didn't until they were down big.
The idea of worrying about foul trouble before anyone was in foul trouble just isn't logical. Folks were complaining about Tyler Cook few games back. He got 3 fouls and Fran kept him on the bench for something like 27 minutes that game. What is the point if he doesn't play at all? Another reason I don't think Prohm was on top of it.

So you wanted ISU to continue to get blown out?

I think your agenda here is quite clear--to make sure CSP isn't capable of credit for good things. Meanwhile I'll get back to enjoying what Prohm can do with this bunch since historically his teams have improved throughout the season. The last month has been relatively fun...good stuff.

 

[Doc]

The way to beat Purdue was to go small, and the opposite of what he did in the first half. Michigan did it twice and Kansas did it after. Don't think it is stretch to say it was a missed opportunity to take advantage of weaknesses of Purdue.

Regardless, we will see how they do this weekend and moving forward

I don't really think KU or Michigan went abnormally small against Purdue. They both just played the same guys they usually did

 

[madguy30]

I don't really think KU or Michigan went abnormally small against Purdue. They both just played the same guys they usually did

Purdue was able to get away from attempting to be a running team for 1.5 games if that. They looked real impressive in the first half of the ISU game, got gassed about mid-way through the 2nd half but just hit one or two more shots, and then lasted about 10 minutes vs. KU.

 

[clonedlion]

The interesting thing in all of this is whether or not we see each other's point of view. You all like him and that is fine. This whole thing started because I said Prohm is not on Jacobson's level and I don't think ISU wins this weekend. There is no agenda. There is no hatred.
You all can like him, but everyone is biased in their view. Apparently nobody is upset with Prohm and how Purdue went and everyone is thrilled with how he has handled this program so far. I think he mismanaged that purdue game and it stemmed from how he handles adjustments in game, which means, a chance at a final four and championship with kansas and oregon to follow.

So we can go back and forth for days pointing out this and that, but the question is who wins think weekend. I still say UNI.

 

[EarthIsMan]

ISU 73-UNI 69 with 68 possessions.

Regardless of how either team shoots from 3, I will predict whatever team shoots better at 2 pt FGs will win.

Impressively, UNI has kept all opponent to a very low effective FG%. ISU currently is making a respectable 37.4% of 3 pt FGs. Meanwhile, UNI's opposing teams are only shooting 30.6% on 3 pt FGs - with no team shooting better than 35.0% from 3. 3 pt defense is quite random so it will be interesting to see if UNI "regresses to the mean" against ISU.

Lastly, I think UNI's offensive mismatch will be Koch against Young, Lard, or Brase. Our post defense has so far been a liability that I am expecting UNI to exploit.

 

[CyTwins]

The interesting thing in all of this is whether or not we see each other's point of view. You all like him and that is fine. This whole thing started because I said Prohm is not on Jacobson's level and I don't think ISU wins this weekend. There is no agenda. There is no hatred.
You all can like him, but everyone is biased in their view. Apparently nobody is upset with Prohm and how Purdue went and everyone is thrilled with how he has handled this program so far. I think he mismanaged that purdue game and it stemmed from how he handles adjustments in game, which means, a chance at a final four and championship with kansas and oregon to follow.

So we can go back and forth for days pointing out this and that, but the question is who wins think weekend. I still say UNI.

You like Fred and think he is a good coach but he lost to UAB with 4 NBA players on the roster. You don't like Prohm because he lost to a good Purdue team in the second round. Do you understand how dumb that sounds or are you just trolling?

 

[CyTwins]

I think Prohm is a good coach and think we lose Saturday and it doesn't matter because it's not a big game anyways

 

[inCyteful]

I do believe he was supposed to come in and put a real emphasis on defense, something people wanted more of from Hoiberg. When he did try to slow the pace, the offensive flow was disrupted and often times sloppy for a team that was used to playing loose and free.
Watching this season, it is clear that they are not focused on defense to keep games low scoring. They are getting back to up and down game plan. Give Prohm credit for making this change, even if it hurt the clones last year. Let's see if they can handle a slow down pace with quality bigs, because I don't see it.
Lastly, not sure how anyone can say these coaches are even. Jacobsen and UNI have an identity that has worked through out the years and have given Iowa and ISU fits. To say Prohm is on his level at this stage in careers is just untrue.

Approximately how many 20 win seasons in a row does Jacobson have? And how many of his players are on NBA rosters?

Jac is a very good coach. CSP is certainly at the same level and showing every indication he is at another level.

Me thinketh you are yet another retread troll.

 

[inCyteful]

There are easy arguments that can be countered. He inherited one of the best ISU teams in history, with 2-4 NBA players and 2-3 the following year to date. I am not interested in winning percentage, especially over a short span because of the cupcakes that are played in college basketball. I am more interested in big games.

I am impressed with his recruiting classes and hope he succeeds in the future, but I don't understand why it is ok to give him a pass in games that should've been better. In an interview with the Ames Tribune after the Purdue game, he actually said he was waiting before switching anything up. He waited a whole half to change any part of his game plan. He said he didn't know what was the problem.That is the height of below average coaching and I think he has yet to prove he can do it.

Again, I hope I am wrong, but I will not just jump on board and say he is great, just because he is the current coach.

The way to beat Purdue was to go small, and the opposite of what he did in the first half. Michigan did it twice and Kansas did it after. Don't think it is stretch to say it was a missed opportunity to take advantage of weaknesses of Purdue.

Regardless, we will see how they do this weekend and moving forward

Good lord, CSP had them within 1 rebound of winning the game.

Maybe you think more highly of Jacobson's handling of the end of their T A&M game?

 

[clonedlion]

Approximately how many 20 win seasons in a row does Jacobson have? And how many of his players are on NBA rosters?

Jac is a very good coach. CSP is certainly at the same level and showing every indication he is at another level.

Me thinketh you are yet another retread troll.

No sir. I am not a troll. If you look back, I said I answered the conversation of the thread. I have the right to my opinion and the right to express it. I don't like Prohm as some of you so now I am a troll or I am dumb. I gave my reasons for why I don't like him and folks have countered. We can go back and forth but we won't change each others minds. I have already said I hope i'm wrong, but currently, that is my take.