Herman moved up to OC at Ohio State, as I recall. I remember seeing some of his teams stuffed pretty well (Mizzou last year, OU most every year, Texas last year, and numerous others). Last I checked, this seemed like more of a continuous flow from his scheme to Messingham's. I do agree play calling sucks, but it kind-of carried over from past years' offense. Only real difference is we don't do most of that offense getting set, they all standing back up to look at the sidelines crap. I don't miss that at all. Now if we could just block better, hit open receivers, and not turn over the ball...
Two things......
- Thread starter CycloneErik
- Start date
Courtney is a knowledgeable football guy.
I think it has a lot more to do with the emphasis of the head coach. The defensive side of the ball has pretty much had an identity since day one (remember "we're gonna hit you coming off the bus). I think that is mostly due to CPR's background as a defensive player and coach.
He was able to hire an excellent coordinator right away, and the continuity on that side of the ball has developed what is the best modern day defense that we have seen at Iowa State.
He never had that guy on the offensive side of the ball to develop a consistent offense.
Mess will be ok, but he is not doing exactly what he wants to do, because he is coaching players recruited for Herman's offense.
But the one thing that absolutely HAS to happen the rest of the year, is that we have to have an offense that can pick up yards when the defense needs a blow. The continuoust 3 and outs when we needed to take some time off the clock were just the same awful, losing football we have seen here forever.
We will continue to lose these types of games until we can at least pick up some yards when the d is gassed.
I think it has a lot more to do with the emphasis of the head coach. The defensive side of the ball has pretty much had an identity since day one (remember "we're gonna hit you coming off the bus). I think that is mostly due to CPR's background as a defensive player and coach.
He was able to hire an excellent coordinator right away, and the continuity on that side of the ball has developed what is the best modern day defense that we have seen at Iowa State.
He never had that guy on the offensive side of the ball to develop a consistent offense.
Mess will be ok, but he is not doing exactly what he wants to do, because he is coaching players recruited for Herman's offense.
But the one thing that absolutely HAS to happen the rest of the year, is that we have to have an offense that can pick up yards when the defense needs a blow. The continuoust 3 and outs when we needed to take some time off the clock were just the same awful, losing football we have seen here forever.
We will continue to lose these types of games until we can at least pick up some yards when the d is gassed.
D
DistrictCyclone
Guest
A) If this is true, I hope it's because he feels like he doesn't have the talent to run the offense he wants, and not because CPR is meddling. I always worried that Herman was frustrated because CPR would co-opt his play calling, which could be a perennial problem if there's any truth to this suspicion. Let the OC do his job.
B) Messingham has spent 3 years with these players; even if they were recruited for Herman's system, Messingham should be able to squeeze more production out of them than he has. Besides, I hate this "wait it out" mentality...who care if the players weren't explicitly recruited to run Messingham's offense? At the end of the day, they've got arms and legs and know how to block and throw; the OC can make something work with them.
Winner. I still cannot believe we didn't look to a new system when this system is clearly awful at Iowa State.
This stament is B.S.
Exactly what type of player does Mess need to recruit to be able to run what he wants to?
Obviously, the overall talent level and quality of players that ISU recruits needs to improve but to make a statement to the effect that in order for Mess to run what he wants to, he will need his own type of players is ridiculous to say the least.
It’s even more ridiculous when you hear one of the main factors Mess was hired was so the general offensive scheme and gameplan would fundamentally stay the same in order to maintain continuity going forward.
But now all of a sudden he needs his own type of players - whatever that means. Other than an increase in the overall talent level - what exact type of player does he need?
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Wow....Nice
Do you really think that Courtney Messingham is a Tom Herman disciple?
They had never worked together before Iowa State.
If you can't really understand that the players that have been recruited on the offensive side of the ball were brought in to play the system of a coach that is no longer here, then I can't help you.
Fact is that Mess has a pretty varied and extensive resume. I am fairly certain that it is safe to say that he has developed his own philosophy in the time that he has coached. He is still finding his way at the biggest job he has ever had. He has definitely had a couple of bad games. But remember the decision to promote him was made by the HEAD coach.
If you want to criticize him for doing a poor job adjusting to the players that have been recruited here, then that is fine. If you want to criticize his play calling, that is also fine.
But the selective memory used to castigate a guy who has played all of 18 games as a college QB, and a coach that has had one Spring and one Fall camp to install his playbook with personel that he didn't recruit (other than the TE's and WR's of course) because we have to lash out because we played a terrible game on the offensive side of the ball is ridiculous.
The sad part is that it was fairly obvious that this was going to happen on here. The same people that sat here pumping the sunshine of how great we were going to be, are the first damn ones to come up with this ********. It never ever fails on here...Just wait until Freddie loses a game that they shouldn't.
the reactions here are no different than any other fan board, only most other fans boards are much much worse. ISU fans are very mild in comparison.
What QB has played 18 games for us?
Wonder why did not hire Franklin form Louisiana Tech? Rhoads had worked with him at Auburn.
Blah, blah, blah, I only had one question but yet you didn't answer it while bringing in alot of other stuff unrelated to me or my post.
I have one basic and simple question that you didn't answer. What type of player does Mess need to run the plays he wants to run. How is a "Mess" player going to be anything fundamentally different then what ISU puts on the field currently.
In the end football players play football. Other than an upgrade in talent and more depth, your notion that Mess requires a ceratin type of player - that he specifically needs to recruit in order for him to call the plays he wants to call - is beyond absurd.
I'm not ready to give up on the team or coaches just yet. The first three games, Mess had a decent game plan. The team came out on the opening possession, and marched right down the field for a touchdown.
Didn't happen Sat nite, but apparently some adjustments were made at halftime, because they marched down and scored on their first possession of the 2nd half, to take the lead.
It looked to me (and many others) like the O-line could not get any push. No holes for the run game, and Jantz running for his life half the night (when he wasn't getting sacked). I also think our receivers were struggling to get open. Maybe TT's defense is the real deal. Certainly looked like it to me.
Didn't happen Sat nite, but apparently some adjustments were made at halftime, because they marched down and scored on their first possession of the 2nd half, to take the lead.
It looked to me (and many others) like the O-line could not get any push. No holes for the run game, and Jantz running for his life half the night (when he wasn't getting sacked). I also think our receivers were struggling to get open. Maybe TT's defense is the real deal. Certainly looked like it to me.
