This is why Prohm must go........

[Jnecker4cy]

I mean we did just pick up one of the best centers in the nation, so that may help things. But I'll agree as far as other bigs have gone, the development and recruitment has not been very good at the 5 position.

He is a Center only because he is tall. He shoots more 3's in High School than shoots in the paint. He is a stretch 4 with not much of an inside game. He is not the answer for rebounding and toughness. He may be an answer for a three point shooter though.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I think Prohm really is a great recruiter, it's his #1 strength, and I think he is probably one of the best in the country. He would make a fantastic top-level assistant in ANY program.

OMG he is Wayne Morgan.

You see, Curtis Stinson, he's got the heart of a Great White Shark. A big one!

 

[Sigmapolis]

He is a Center only because he is tall. He shoots more 3's in High School than shoots in the paint. He is a stretch 4 with not much of an inside game. He is not the answer for rebounding and toughness. He may be an answer for a three point shooter though.

 

[Clonefan32]

No real way to tell, to be fair, and ample opportunity to read your preexisting biases into it. Guys who got good "worked hard on their game themselves" while guys who did not develop "did not receive good coaching or instruction from the staff." You could switch that around very easily. Which one is the truth is hard to say at any point.

I agree it's a hard thing to measure. It's really probably a combination of both.

 

[madguy30]

I agree fully with this, and I personally think Huggy is a much better coach, but think of the reaction on this board if we missed the tourney 3 out of 7 years, which is a lower percentage than the 2 out of 5 that people on here are already up in arms about. Personally I don't see this getting fixed next year for us (I think we will miss it next year too), but I hope it does.

If this team was at least looking like an NIT berth instead of very possibly looking at maxing out at 10 wins, and looking bad in doing so, people would possibly still be ready to move on, but at least they could point to some positive things.

Also, if we're looking at CSP's full program, he's looking at 2/3 misses with players not already here for him, and the one tourney berth came with some really bad basketball.

 

[twojman]

Missing NCAA tourney 2 of 3 years stinks. ISU was/is not really close to NIT either which in an indictment.

Looking back at 17-18, wow. I remember the Milwaukee loss but ISU squeaked out a 6 point victory at home vs. Maryland Eastern Shore and a 6 point victory vs. a 15-18 Appalachian St team.

 

[AuH2O]

No real way to tell, to be fair, and ample opportunity to read your preexisting biases into it. Guys who got good "worked hard on their game themselves" while guys who did not develop "did not receive good coaching or instruction from the staff." You could switch that around very easily. Which one is the truth is hard to say at any point.

When it comes to most of the individual skills, it's pretty much all on the player. Particularly shooting. It drives me nuts when people give credit to coaches for turning guys into great three point shooters. It's probably one of the dumbest things fans say in sports, and is such a big insult to the hundreds or thousands of hours a player like Naz put in the gym. Obviously there are things coaches can do in terms of identifying and correcting form and giving some drills, but that isn't rocket science and it takes very little time. Same goes for ball handling. Things like post moves, reading actions on the fly have more coach involvement, but really coaches are spending their time and practice working on team execution stuff.

Here's how I'd assign responsibility in becoming a good shooter:
-95% player
-4% manager/trainer that comes in and rebounds and helps the player
-1% coaching staff

 

[cdfree]

I was responding to a poster who said playing with two 5's and no 3pt shooters was more or less impossible. This years Huggy team is a complete 180 from his past teams, he changed how they play to suit their strengths, he didn't stick with a style that his team couldn't play. With Prohm the frustrating thing isn't that we are bad. It's that we are bad and it's like he doesn't realize it. Playing two bigs is a big switch from how his teams have played in the past, yet offensively, we are playing the same way we did with his small ball lineups. It's almost like he's accepting that we are bad and there is nothing he can do about it. At some point, he needs to get off the fence and play a style that suits the skill set of the guys he wants to play or just play small and accept the consequences of guys like TL and Zion's defensive deficiencies. Sadly, after two months of pounding a square peg in to a round hole, its too late.

This years team is better than the last Gmac team offensively but how out of sync they are on offense is almost a spitting image. Both teams coached by a man who has no clue how to use the strengths they have.

Yeah that's another Prohm line. Mr. perimeter defense has grave concerns about TL's defensive deficiencies when they're ranked 318/350 in 3pt defense nationally (270/350 in overall FG defense). How much worse can it get? The answer is none more worse.

 

[xboxfever]

A couple of things here. First of all Prohm literally got one of the best transfers in the country in Shayok two years ago and Bolton was listed as one of the best transfers available this past year. Sure some of them haven't worked out, but not all do. Secondly, Prohm probably preaches early playing time, but that's not always the case. Prohm doesn't just play you because you were a highly rated recruit in high school and he promised you playing time (Terrence Lewis falls into this category). Prohm also was very transparent to Xavier Foster that it's not a guarantee he'll be starting. He's a McDonald's All-American.

The second bolded item is also ridiculous. We don't develop players? We literally had 2 guys get drafted last year and have a lottery pick on the team this year.. You don't think Halliburton has developed since he got on campus? Also, expecting guys to develop a ton from their freshman to their sophomore year is a bit over the top. Guys sometimes need more time to develop into the player they're going to be.

Why is football being brought into this conversation? Are you actually criticizing Matt Campbell in developing players? Hakeem Butler and David Montgomery were low in the rankings and turned out to be some of the best players at their position in all of college football. Brock Purdy is being talked about being a 1st round draft pick. Kolar is one of the best tight ends in the nation. That's not development???

Finally, we obviously are struggling on defense and it's been that way ever since Fred became the coach. If you're a team that scores a ton of points, you're going to end up giving up more points. It happens. But I'm also not going to criticize us for making a last second 3 to win a game.. I highly doubt you were criticizing our defense when Naz hit those threes against Oklahoma State, D-Jack hit the three in Allen Fieldhouse, or when Shayok hit that three against K-State last year in the Big 12 Tournament.

Brock Purdy a first rounder? Other than some delusional fans, who thinks he’s a first rounder? He’s a great QB and we’re lucky to have him, but you are smoking crack if you think he’s a first round QB. At this point in his development, he’s not sniffing the nfl right now. He still has room to grow but he’s not going in the first round. That’s a ridiculous statement.

 

[CloniesForLife]

I think coaches are given too much credit sometimes for development. A lot of it comes down to the player and the work they are willing to put in. Coaches can help give them the tools and teach them what they need to do to improve but a lot is just about self motivation.

I think it's definitely a combo. Coaches need to be good teachers and identify what to work on and give them proper tools/drills to work on it but a lot of it is up to the player to do it.

 

[madguy30]

They went from like 9/10 to 12/10.

They found another gear or two as juniors and seniors.

Thomas and Nader were much better under Prohm, too.

Yep and they had definitive roles too. Foundation was there.

He's struggled with the foundation piece imo.

 

[Cy$]

We've seen our offense.

It’s a 2-0 run!!!! Timeout Prohm!

 

[Cyfanisu]

I mean Georges Niang was good when he got here but he certainly got better over the course of his career. Matt Naz and Monte had their best years as seniors in the program.

Yes, but my opinion: those guys were so well coached under the previous staff that they could have coached themselves in their junior/senior years. I think it’s more valuable/telling to look at players recruited by and coached solely by the current staff.

 

[jcisuclones]

I'd pay to see Hockey in Hilton!

Unfortunately, the ice cooling system was damaged beyond repair during past floods.

 

[Statefan10]

Yes, but my opinion: those guys were so well coached under the previous staff that they could have coached themselves in their junior/senior years. I think it’s more valuable/telling to look at players recruited by and coached solely by the current staff.

I would agree somewhat with that, but at the same time, a guy like Deonte Burton was only with Coach Hoiberg for 4 months and was with Coach Prohm for 2 years. Deonte was not the same player his junior year in comparison to his senior year. He developed into the player he was under Prohm, regardless of whether or not he was recruited by Prohm.

As I said earlier, Prohm's gotten quite a bit of talent to come to Iowa State, however a lot of that talent has left early or were upperclassmen and only had 1-2 years to play. We never got to see some of them develop in the program because they were talented enough to leave and make an NBA roster / G-League team. Babb is the only player that played more than 2 years under Steve and I think he got better from his first year to his last. Lewis and Solomon will be the first seniors that will have spent 4 years under Prohm.

I think Prohm has done an okay job since he's been here. We've had enough talent to compete at a very high level and he's done an okay job overall, however okay is not good enough here. His 3rd year was bad due to roster turnover and lots of new faces. This year is now bad again due to the same reason. He has to be able to weather the storm of losing young talent by getting a base group of guys that'll stick it out for more than 2 years. Hopefully this next class is that group.

 

[GrindingAway]

When it comes to most of the individual skills, it's pretty much all on the player. Particularly shooting. It drives me nuts when people give credit to coaches for turning guys into great three point shooters. It's probably one of the dumbest things fans say in sports, and is such a big insult to the hundreds or thousands of hours a player like Naz put in the gym. Obviously there are things coaches can do in terms of identifying and correcting form and giving some drills, but that isn't rocket science and it takes very little time. Same goes for ball handling. Things like post moves, reading actions on the fly have more coach involvement, but really coaches are spending their time and practice working on team execution stuff.

Here's how I'd assign responsibility in becoming a good shooter:
-95% player
-4% manager/trainer that comes in and rebounds and helps the player
-1% coaching staff

I'm going to assume you haven't seen a high level trainer work with a player on either shooting or ball handling. I agree the responsibility is mainly on the player and the player has to put in the work, but I can assure you the trainers and the coaches of most college programs are having a high impact on shooting and ball handling.

There's a reasons guys like Chris Matthews and Drew Hanlen can get courtside seats to basically any NBA game they want.

 

[VeloClone]

I'm going to assume you haven't seen a high level trainer work with a player on either shooting or ball handling. I agree the responsibility is mainly on the player and the player has to put in the work, but I can assure you the trainers and the coaches of most college programs are having a high impact on shooting and ball handling.

There's a reasons guys like Chris Matthews and Drew Hanlen can get courtside seats to basically any NBA game they want.

I have to agree. Monte was very clear that they helped him greatly with his shooting when he got in the NBA. It was a minor tweak, but he didn't do it all by himself.

https://www.vaildaily.com/news/monte-morris-hones-jumper-with-his-bubble-gum-wrapper/

 

[ISUChippewa]

Missing NCAA tourney 2 of 3 years stinks. ISU was/is not really close to NIT either which in an indictment.

Looking back at 17-18, wow. I remember the Milwaukee loss but ISU squeaked out a 6 point victory at home vs. Maryland Eastern Shore and a 6 point victory vs. a 15-18 Appalachian St team.

Honestly, at least to this point, that team was a lot more "fun" than this current season's team is. I'm not going to make the argument that it was a good season in any way, shape, or form, because it just wasn't at all, but at the same time that team did beat Iowa (albeit a bad Iowa) and also kicked the living sh!t out of ranked Big 12 teams in Texas Tech and West Virginia at home. Not to mention beating Trey Young and Oklahoma as well (I honestly don't remember if they were ranked at the time or not). That team also had a lot of injuries; NWB, Solo, etc., that really hurt the overall talent level and record.

Outside of a couple of sprains and bumps/bruises, this team doesn't have those injury reasons to be as bad as we are.

It sucks. This is no fun to watch or follow as a fan.

 

[CyBobby]

The same Huggy that didn't make the Tourney last year and has made 4 of the last 7? Honestly I agree with a lot of people that Prohm isn't really a great fit here, but lets not think it is all sunshine and roses elsewhere.

"Prohm isn't really a great fit here,"......Love your post and I agree with your sentiments....

 

[Sigmapolis]

Honestly, at least to this point, that team was a lot more "fun" than this current season's team is. I'm not going to make the argument that it was a good season in any way, shape, or form, because it just wasn't at all, but at the same time that team did beat Iowa (albeit a bad Iowa) and also kicked the living sh!t out of ranked Big 12 teams in Texas Tech and West Virginia at home. Not to mention beating Trey Young and Oklahoma as well (I honestly don't remember if they were ranked at the time or not). That team also had a lot of injuries; NWB, Solo, etc., that really hurt the overall talent level and record.

Outside of a couple of sprains and bumps/bruises, this team doesn't have those injury reasons to be as bad as we are.

It sucks. This is no fun to watch or follow as a fan.

That team had four (fun) home wins --

Baylor
Texas Tech
WVU
Oklahoma

Baylor was the only unranked one at the time.

This team has basically one comparable win (over Seton Hall at home).

I would be pretty happy if we had three more this year.

I always thought that 2017-2018 team had a decent ceiling. Two things doomed it --

-- the two OT losses to start off the Big 12 season... and losing a close game in Lawrence... starting out 2-2 or even 3-1 with a win at the Phog would have been something, or even just 2-2... nah... just 0-4 and on a bad path, and they never really recovered

-- all the injuries... that team when healthy could be dangerous... Nick was coming into his own as a PG, Jackson and Wigginton were deadly shooters, Lard could be absolutely dominant at times, Solomon was solid... but not much after that

If they stay healthy and have 1-2 good bench guys, that team is pretty decent.