This is why Prohm must go........

[capitalcityguy]

How was he not used properly?

If anything, how they used him helped. Putting him at pg would have further exposed his weaknesses. He averaged nearly 27 minutes in conference play. That's plenty for a guy that's best suited for instant offense off the bench.

This has been debated to death already on the forum...e.g....some players are better starters, then off the bench players. I'm not interested in rehashing. People are going to have different takes but in the end, no one can know for sure because we can't go back in time for a do-over.

 

[FinalFourCy]

This has been debated to death already on the forum...e.g....some players are better starters, then off the bench players. I'm not interested in rehashing. People are going to have different takes but in the end, no one can know for sure because we can't go back in time for a do-over.

My mistake, I thought you had jumped into this discussion by asking "how much of that was because he wasn't used properly by the coaching staff?".

Since you wanted to ask, but not rehash it, the answer to your question is zero. He want't misused.

 

[Snyder21]

How was he not used properly?

If anything, how they used him helped. Putting him at pg would have further exposed his weaknesses. He averaged nearly 27 minutes in conference play. That's plenty for a guy that's best suited for instant offense off the bench.

Lindell was not great for us last year, but people do make a good point when saying he wasn't set up for success. His role on offense was to stand out on the perimeter and shoot catch and shoot 3's. Did he shoot a decent percentage? Sure. But after watching his freshman season it was obvious his game is driving and slashing in the lane to create shots and get to the foul line.

Was he turnover prone? Sure. Did he overthink and was he tentative when he was slashing last year? Yes. Why? Because the coaches didn't put him in position to be as confident a player as his freshman season. Slashers need to handle the ball and be active in the offense. It's hard to expect him to be the same type of player when he was constantly standing around in the corner waiting to shoot a 3 as the shot clock winds down.

Would putting him at PG have been a risk for more turnovers? Absolutely. But I think I would sacrifice a couple of possessions if it meant having an active and aggressive Lindell. In my mind he was definitely misused and it's not even a question.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Lindell was not great for us last year, but people do make a good point when saying he wasn't set up for success. His role on offense was to stand out on the perimeter and shoot catch and shoot 3's. Did he shoot a decent percentage? Sure. But after watching his freshman season it was obvious his game is driving and slashing in the lane to create shots and get to the foul line.

Was he turnover prone? Sure. Did he overthink and was he tentative when he was slashing last year? Yes. Why? Because the coaches didn't put him in position to be as confident a player as his freshman season. Slashers need to handle the ball and be active in the offense. It's hard to expect him to be the same type of player when he was constantly standing around in the corner waiting to shoot a 3 as the shot clock winds down.

Would putting him at PG have been a risk for more turnovers? Absolutely. But I think I would sacrifice a couple of possessions if it meant having an active and aggressive Lindell. In my mind he was definitely misused and it's not even a question.

Was it...?

I remember a few highlight plays doing that, but I remember a lot of him dribbling into double-teams, turning the ball over, or making a bad pass out of it.

His very low A:T ratio betrays that.

The argument that, "This guy needed to play more to be more effective" is basically never true. Guys who are bad/okay is small doses are not better in large ones. Efficiency goes down with more minutes and higher usage, not upwards.

LW was more of a Tyrus/DJax bench gunner than we have realized. Great shooter with pretensions of being a PG (which were best minimized and left to better options on the roster) who could be pretty bad on defense when targeted.

 

[Halincandenza]

Was it...?

I remember a few highlight plays doing that, but I remember a lot of him dribbling into double-teams, turning the ball over, or making a bad pass out of it.

His very low A:T ratio betrays that.

The argument that, "This guy needed to play more to be more effective" is basically never true. Guys who are bad/okay is small doses are not better in large ones. Efficiency goes down with more minutes and higher usage, not upwards.

LW was more of a Tyrus/DJax bench gunner than we have realized. Great shooter with pretensions of being a PG (which were best minimized and left to better options on the roster) who could be pretty bad on defense if other teams exploited him.

Didn't Wigginton have about the 3rd best PER on the team last year behind Shayok and Jacobson?

 

[madguy30]

Was it...?

I remember a few highlight plays doing that, but I remember a lot of him dribbling into double-teams, turning the ball over, or making a bad pass out of it.

His very low A:T ratio betrays that.

The argument that, "This guy needed to play more to be more effective" is basically never true. Guys who are bad/okay is small doses are not better in large ones. Efficiency goes down with more minutes and higher usage, not upwards.

LW was more of a Tyrus/DJax bench gunner than we have realized. Great shooter with pretensions of being a PG (which were best minimized and left to better options on the roster) who could be pretty bad on defense when targeted.

I think LW COULD play defense. He just didn't.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Didn't Wigginton have about the 3rd best PER on the team last year behind Shayok and Jacobson?

He was 5th in conference.

Conditt was 1st in limited minutes, to be fair, so bump him up to #4.

He was behind Lard, Jacobson, and Shayok.

Again -- starting him over THT made sense, but he was not underutilized when he played more minutes than THT at 26.5 per night in the Big 12.

I think LW COULD play defense. He just didn't.

With his athleticism, there was no reason he should not have been the best perimeter defender on the team. Guys with his athletic gifts are rare.

He should have been abusing other guards on D.

Defense is 90% positioning and hustle, however. Both are mental issues.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Lindell was not great for us last year, but people do make a good point when saying he wasn't set up for success. His role on offense was to stand out on the perimeter and shoot catch and shoot 3's. Did he shoot a decent percentage? Sure. But after watching his freshman season it was obvious his game is driving and slashing in the lane to create shots and get to the foul line..

What LW wants to do and what the staff/team needs LW to do weren’t the same. Thankfully the staff did their job.

Didn't Wigginton have about the 3rd best PER on the team last year behind Shayok and Jacobson?

5th, but improvement from 2017-18 because the staff used him correctly. The staff wisely tried to get him be more effective and efficient, as well as channeling his desire to be a gunner off the bench.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Lindell was not great for us last year, but people do make a good point when saying he wasn't set up for success. His role on offense was to stand out on the perimeter and shoot catch and shoot 3's. Did he shoot a decent percentage? Sure. But after watching his freshman season it was obvious his game is driving and slashing in the lane to create shots and get to the foul line.

Was he turnover prone? Sure. Did he overthink and was he tentative when he was slashing last year? Yes. Why? Because the coaches didn't put him in position to be as confident a player as his freshman season. Slashers need to handle the ball and be active in the offense. It's hard to expect him to be the same type of player when he was constantly standing around in the corner waiting to shoot a 3 as the shot clock winds down.

Would putting him at PG have been a risk for more turnovers? Absolutely. But I think I would sacrifice a couple of possessions if it meant having an active and aggressive Lindell. In my mind he was definitely misused and it's not even a question.

This is the antithesis of how LW should have been used a year ago. There’s a reason why several coaches have passed on playing him at pg.

He played nearly the same minutes as THT, more in conference play. To earn more of minutes than that, he needed to either play better defense, or be a more efficient scorer.

 

[capitalcityguy]

My mistake, I thought you had jumped into this discussion by asking "how much of that was because he wasn't used properly by the coaching staff?".

Since you wanted to ask, but not rehash it, the answer to your question is zero. He want't misused.

It was meant to be more of a rhetorical question since no one would be so arrogant as to suggest they hold the absolute truth to such a question..

 

[FinalFourCy]

It was meant to be more of a rhetorical question since no one would be so arrogant as to suggest they hold the absolute truth to such a question..

Right, you were arrogant enough to think you could take a shot at the staff without it being questioned and discussed.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Right, you were arrogant enough to think you could take a shot at the staff without it being questioned and discussed.

....except it has been....to death....on several threads already.

 

[Cyclone951]

When analyzing a coach it’s easy to be subjective. But, it’s time we take an objective look at Prohm. There is data supporting this information.

1) Prohm has destroyed Hilton Magic. 5-5 in last 10 relevant games there. Not with one rebuilding team but with NBA talent and some solid recruits.

2) Prohm year 4 brings the hard truth that the program is not better than it was when he started, or better than any of the 3-4 years before then. That is how a coach is generally evaluated: is the program better as a result of their hire? The answer here is a definitive no.

3) Prohm inherited a solid situation in Murray State then never went back to the tourney. He inherited a great situation at ISU and isn’t doing much since. Coaches lose games as blips
on a radar screen. This seems to be a trend with Prohm at back to back programs.

4) Prohm has never beaten a Power 6 team in the big dance. We all know that any competent basketball person could’ve coached that 2016 team to the Sweet 16 given their roster in conjunction with the draw they had that year.

5). Great, he has recruited some talent. That seems to be his strength. But what good is it if they don’t do anything with the talent? ex: Wigginton - 0 tourney wins.

6) Only subjective argument - but one with a ton of evidence - Players don’t seem to like or respect him. He let THT do some really stupid things as a frosh with zero repercussions. Did you ever watch Wigginton in a huddle last year? It rarely looks like he or anyone is listening to Prohm. He continues to let Jacobson and Nixon shoot in spots that hurt the team- why? McKay hated him. Lard hated him. Two scholarship dudes leave a week before the season opener this year. Rumor is wigginton would’ve left had he not went pro.

At some point we need to realize this guy is not doing it. Fyi this is not a knee jerk reaction to last weeks loss. This is information over time.

 

[FinalFourCy]

....except it has been....to death....on several threads already.

Yet, you brought it for discussion yet again.

 

[VeloClone]

This thread is toxic.

 

[clonefreek]

We had all this talent last year and yet still couldnt win. Explain?

 

[FinalFourCy]

We had all this talent last year and yet still couldnt win. Explain?

9-9 in conference play, with additional wins in KC isn’t “couldn’t win”. IF bookended with two missed tournaments, then last year would fall short as a good (enough) peak year. It really depends on what it gets packaged with.

Did you miss the month of February? The program lacked the leadership needed to keep that group together. Add in average coaching (not bad, but not all that good imo) and it was a disappointing finish.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Yet, you brought it for discussion yet again.

See definition of rhetorical question.

 

[Sigmapolis]

People keep complaining that Prohm doesn't win and I keep watching these.

Awful coach. Huggy Bear and Self sure showed him. Straight up trash tier.

 

[Cloneon]

When analyzing a coach it’s easy to be subjective. But, it’s time we take an objective look at Prohm. There is data supporting this information.

1) Prohm has destroyed Hilton Magic. 5-5 in last 10 relevant games there. Not with one rebuilding team but with NBA talent and some solid recruits.

2) Prohm year 4 brings the hard truth that the program is not better than it was when he started, or better than any of the 3-4 years before then. That is how a coach is generally evaluated: is the program better as a result of their hire? The answer here is a definitive no.

3) Prohm inherited a solid situation in Murray State then never went back to the tourney. He inherited a great situation at ISU and isn’t doing much since. Coaches lose games as blips
on a radar screen. This seems to be a trend with Prohm at back to back programs.

4) Prohm has never beaten a Power 6 team in the big dance. We all know that any competent basketball person could’ve coached that 2016 team to the Sweet 16 given their roster in conjunction with the draw they had that year.

5). Great, he has recruited some talent. That seems to be his strength. But what good is it if they don’t do anything with the talent? ex: Wigginton - 0 tourney wins.

6) Only subjective argument - but one with a ton of evidence - Players don’t seem to like or respect him. He let THT do some really stupid things as a frosh with zero repercussions. Did you ever watch Wigginton in a huddle last year? It rarely looks like he or anyone is listening to Prohm. He continues to let Jacobson and Nixon shoot in spots that hurt the team- why? McKay hated him. Lard hated him. Two scholarship dudes leave a week before the season opener this year. Rumor is wigginton would’ve left had he not went pro.

At some point we need to realize this guy is not doing it. Fyi this is not a knee jerk reaction to last weeks loss. This is information over time.

This thread has been an interesting read, but one thing stands out. Those who think Prohm should be let go, have yet to offer a better solution. And, 'no', Fred is not a solution. I instruct all my employees to be open, but for every criticism offered, they'd better have a solution. Otherwise you're nothing than couch coaches who 'hate'.