*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[CyFan61]

I like the idea of Houston. It helps Texas stay put and if Texas really is close to ND that would be the greatest get ever. If we could add Houston, ND and BYU we would be back to 12 and a very solid conference. I know it's a long shot, but there's a chance.

I hate the idea of adding Houston. It puts a serious dent in our recruiting of Texas even further assuming TAMU leaves as well. Right now if we are recruiting a kid from Texas and Houston is our biggest competition, I feel very good about it. If UH was in the Big XII we would lose that battle most of the time. We don't need another Texas team to make UT stay put.

 

[jbhtexas]

BYU went to the west coast conference to play st. Mary's and Gonzaga. If you don't think there is a discrepancy in those budgets, you are wrong.

There is a discrepancy in the budgets of BYU and the WCC shcools, but it isn't anywhere near the discrepancy that there would be if that school was UT.

From the latest EADA data: Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool Website

BYU total expenditures: $35,450,765
BYU expenditures on FB: $10,312,232
BYU expenditures elsewhere in the AD: $25,138,533
BYU revenue: $40,999,979

Gonzaga expenditures: $17,253,894 (don't play FB)
Gonzaga revenue: $18,018,601

St Marys expenditures: $12,258,197 (don't play FB)
St Marys revenue: $12,258,197

UT total expenditures: $113,952,320
UT expenditures on FB: $25,112,331
UT expenditures elsewhere in the AD: $88,839,989
UT revenue: $143,555,354

At least the expenditures by BYU on everything else except FB are somewhat close to that spent by Gonzaga, and about double what St. Marys spend. UT would have spent 7 times as much.

 

[chuckd4735]

No it doesn't. The Big East has how many millions of people in their footprint? Markets mean zilch when the school doesn't deliver them. That's how the Big 10 Network is successful. They are top dog in every state in their footprint. St. John's would be the hottest commodity in the country if TV markets meant anything. St. John's isn't because they don't deliver squat. Does Northwestern deliver Chicago? No.

I dont disagree at all, that's essentially what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you get into markets that make sense. I dont know the answer to what those markets are besides looking at a list of the top markets. The Big 12 has people whop are better at figuring that stuff out much better than any of us, and if it makes scene to expand, they will.

 

[im4cyclones]

I hate the idea of adding Houston. It puts a serious dent in our recruiting of Texas even further assuming TAMU leaves as well. Right now if we are recruiting a kid from Texas and Houston is our biggest competition, I feel very good about it. If UH was in the Big XII we would lose that battle most of the time. We don't need another Texas team to make UT stay put.

I agree. Adding another Texas school is worse for us. Plus, as I said before, I don't think Texas wants Houston. Maybe they would take them but I don't think Houston is make or break for Texas to stick. Otherwise, they would have pushed for them last year.

Another Texas BCS school is one more competitor for us with the 2nd and 3rd tier Texas recruits.

 

[trajanJ]

I hate the idea of adding Houston. It puts a serious dent in our recruiting of Texas even further assuming TAMU leaves as well. Right now if we are recruiting a kid from Texas and Houston is our biggest competition, I feel very good about it. If UH was in the Big XII we would lose that battle most of the time. We don't need another Texas team to make UT stay put.

If A&M leaves Texas is going to want another school from the state in. Yes it hurts recruiting a little but not near as bad as Texas & OU just heading west. If they do that you know the other conferences are going to grab who they can and the 4 - 16 team superconferences will be formed and we won't be part of it. That will pretty much end sports as we know it. Much better having to recruit against Houston then being out of the game.

 

[gocubs2118]

I think the only Texas school that makes sense to add is TCU but even them I would be hesitant to add.

 

[Boomer]

Thing people need to keep in mind. That first tier deal we are currently under is still for 12 teams.. No way the network will let this league split 12 slices 9 ways. it would be addressed

 

[Cyclonestate78]

For the 433rd time, a school being in an area doesn't "deliver" a market. Air Force brings next to nothing besides a pulse. Louisville doesn't bring a whole helluva lot either. Kentucky is the big dog in the state. A Big 12 Network is probably nowhere close to existence. We just signed away second tier rights for 13 years unless that contract is void now.

Can't rep you but you deserve it. A conference can't add a team like South Florida or UCF and think that somehow delivers the Florida market. A little thing called competition comes into play and Miami, Florida, and Florida State have that market covered. The total fan bases of schools like UCF and South Florida is probably just about enough to fill JTS on any given Saturday. Sure those schools have fans but they are similar to what UNI is in this state.... a sideshow that gets very little attention.

 

[twistedredbird]

I agree. Adding another Texas school is worse for us. Plus, as I said before, I don't think Texas wants Houston. Maybe they would take them but I don't think Houston is make or break for Texas to stick. Otherwise, they would have pushed for them last year.

Another Texas BCS school is one more competitor for us with the 2nd and 3rd tier Texas recruits.

Actually, according to those in the know, Houston is the queue, and would have an offer to the Big 12 if ND and BYU decline. See my earlier link post.

 

[3GenClone]

Any chance ESPN sweetens the pot to entice higher-profile universities to the Big 12? The Big 12 is still the only conference to allow universities to have their own network - an ESPN-affiliated network at that. If OU can get set-up and LHN finds even moderate success, wouldn't some universities be interested in exploring that opportunity?

 

[kingcy]

Actually, according to those in the know, Houston is the queue, and would have an offer to the Big 12 if ND and BYU decline. See my earlier link post.

Why not invite all 3?

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Thing people need to keep in mind. That first tier deal we are currently under is still for 12 teams.. No way the network will let this league split 12 slices 9 ways. it would be addressed

Time for Oklahoma and Texas to flex their muscles. The Big XII -3 still has a nice product to sell. Texas A&M doesn't really add that much to the mix other then having a lunatic filled fan base.

 

[IcSyU]

Any chance ESPN sweetens the pot to entice higher-profile universities to the Big 12? The Big 12 is still the only conference to allow universities to have their own network - an ESPN-affiliated network at that. If OU can get set-up and LHN finds even moderate success, wouldn't some universities be interested in exploring that opportunity?

I HIGHLY doubt it. Texas has a gargantuan fan base. Oklahoma isn't nearly the same, nor is really any team in the country.

 

[mred]

I HIGHLY doubt it. Texas has a gargantuan fan base. Oklahoma isn't nearly the same, nor is really any team in the country.

Once ESPN gets the LHN going, they might start looking to do the same for schools like OU. They could probably do it cheaply enough to make it worth everyone's while after they get experience running the LHN.

 

[FarminCy]

Can't rep you but you deserve it. A conference can't add a team like South Florida or UCF and think that somehow delivers the Florida market. A little thing called competition comes into play and Miami, Florida, and Florida State have that market covered. The total fan bases of schools like UCF and South Florida is probably just about enough to fill JTS on any given Saturday. Sure those schools have fans but they are similar to what UNI is in this state.... a sideshow that gets very little attention.

I agree that neither deliver the state of florida and never will but they both average about 40K per home game. They aren't that far off from where we are attendance wise.

I'm not really adding much just pointing out they do draw D1 sized crowds, on the smaller side, but bigger than some BCS schools.

 

[StLouisClone]

Actually, according to those in the know, Houston is the queue, and would have an offer to the Big 12 if ND and BYU decline. See my earlier link post.

This makes a lot of sense. Offer both ND and BYU first. If only one accepts, then keep the league at 10 teams. If both decline, then invite Houston.

 

[Arkansas Cyclone]

Texas an OU can hold all of this together if they really want to. They both know if they save this league, one of them will probably be playing in a national championship 5 out of every 10 years. The team that wins the red river shootout will have a great chance of running the table and being in the national championship game, every year. That would probably not be the case in any other conference.

Texas and OU have to sit down and have a heart to heart and compromise on what they want. Texas may have to give in on a few things and so does OU. A&M and its cry baby, little brother, *****-*** ***** inferiority complex was 95% of the Big 12's problem. Texas and OU both know that the Big 12 is where the gettin is good.

As far as the other schools, KU and Mizzou are the only other ones that may have any sort of pull in the fiasco, but is very minute. Right now, the only other viable option for them is the Big East. Would you rather roll the dice with a now more stable Big 12 with the sheep ******* Aggies out of equation or jump to another unstable and shaky Big East that is probably just as vulnerable as we are? We are all making a **** ton more money in the Big 12.

A 9 team Big 12 will be okay in the short term and give us the opportunity to court other universities to get to 12 in the next few years. As much as I think Houston is a stupid invite, I'd be okay with it if it gave us a sense of stability. BYU is the next big get that we need to lock up in the next 2 years. If we can go a couple years without someone threatening to leave, trust can be built back up.

If the current schools truly band together this time, losing A&M may be a very good thing for the conference. We can all watch their football program die in the SEC. Be careful what you wish for aggie. Again, if the Horns and the Sooners want this to work, it will work.

This pretty well sums up what I was just getting ready to write. I remember seeing something way back in this thread that indicated that OU and OSU would stay put if the rest of the league is also willing to stay put as well. Deep down this is what I really think is gonna happen. The only thing that could screw with it is if the SEC would also offer Mizzou just to get to 14. But that's only a slight risk as the SEC seems to have their sites on either FSU or Virginia Tech.

If aTm's gone I honestly think the Big XII will stay at 9 for the short term. I think expansion will happen but hopefully not just throw in another Texas team just to get to 10. I think it was Boomer who said that there would be an attempt to lure teams to the conference. Who those teams might be might be interesting.

 

[3GenClone]

I HIGHLY doubt it. Texas has a gargantuan fan base. Oklahoma isn't nearly the same, nor is really any team in the country.

I just don't believe the Big 12 can limit the scope of candidates to non-BCS schools. I have always thought Arizona and Arizona State would be good expansion candidates. The Big 12 already has exposure in Glendale (Fiesta Bowl) and Tempe (Insight.com Bowl) and would offer those schools the ability to start an ESPN-AZ network. It would increasing the competition in the Big 12 and increase exposure which should amount to a better overall TV deal than getting the best available non-BCS schools.

 

[DRCHIRO]

This pretty well sums up what I was just getting ready to write. I remember seeing something way back in this thread that indicated that OU and OSU would stay put if the rest of the league is also willing to stay put as well. Deep down this is what I really think is gonna happen. The only thing that could screw with it is if the SEC would also offer Mizzou just to get to 14. But that's only a slight risk as the SEC seems to have their sites on either FSU or Virginia Tech.

If aTm's gone I honestly think the Big XII will stay at 9 for the short term. I think expansion will happen but hopefully not just throw in another Texas team just to get to 10. I think it was Boomer who said that there would be an attempt to lure teams to the conference. Who those teams might be might be interesting.

I'm actually a little more concerned with the Pac 12 looking at KU than the SEC looking at Mizzou. If the SEC goes to 14, I think they try to snag someone out east to balance out the conference since they just snagged aggie from the west.

 

[alarson]

For people saying "such and such school 'delivers' a state", or ' we already have that market covered', that only really applies if you're running a cable network for the conference, and getting a contract for cable carriage gets you money from every subscriber.

For everything else, ratings matter. So, for instance, if you invite a school from a new state that doesnt bring much in terms of ratings, you're not going to increase the money much. However, if you invited a school from the same state that can still pick up its own additional viewers, theyre a benefit.

Since we're unlikely to start a whole big 12 network anytime soon, id say if long run we think a program can provide an additional audience, even if theyre in an existing state (looking at texas here) then they may be worth an invite.

This is why houston may make sense as one of our offers. I see a lot of potential for them once they get in a big league. University in one of the largest cities in the country, 40k students, plans for a new stadium (i imagine those plans might get upscaled if they got an invite), and long run could develop a big audience in that area of texas with some success. Trade one texas team for one much less cultish texas team. Obviously their audience is a bit smaller now because theyve been in CUSA, but over time, there could be a lot of potential there.