The facts are the facts

[Intheno]

By no means did I like what happened at Nationals, w/ the obvious exception of Kyven. With that being said, weird things happen. No one would have predicted Mike’s situation, Gabe’s injury, Lelunds injury and Tanner would go 0-2, and Earl would not repeat. But does that mean KJ and staff didn’t develop them?
Lets compare apple to apples.
Tom Ryan- collegiate coaching 20 years
Combined 2 teams when started OSU
At Ohio 8 Nat’l champs (4 being Steiber, 2 being Jaggers)
Brands collegiate coaching 18 years
Combined 2 teams after VT
Tim Flynn 18 years @ Edinboro
3 Nat'l champs (5 top 10 finishes)
Brian Smith collegiate coaching since 1992, 17 years at MO
6 Nat’l Champs
Rob Koll 21 years at Cornell
12 Natl Champs (Dake 4 timer)
Cael (we know his hx)
J. Smith (we know his too)
Mark Manning collegiate over 20 years 15 at Nebraska
4 Nat’l Champs (5 top 8 finishes)
Dresser 9 years at VT
10 All Americans
0 Nat’l Champs
Kevin Jackson 6 years collegiate coaching
11 All Americans
4 Nat’l Champs
While most of these coaches were year after year building their collegiate college experience Kevin Jackson was at the Olympic Training Center where he coached WORLD AND OLYMPIC Team results from 1999 -2008 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 6[SUP]th[/SUP], 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 4[SUP]th[/SUP], 3[SUP]rd[/SUP], 4[SUP]th[/SUP], 9[SUP]th[/SUP]
GOLD’S- Neal, Slay, Sanderson, Bill Zadick, Cejudo
SILVER- Mcllravy, Henson, Eggum, Sanderson, McCoy, Abas, Kelly, M Zadick
BRONZE Gutches, Brands, Mcllravy, Williams (x2), Thompson, Henson, Pritzlaff, Cormier
*** I believe he can coach……learning curve yes….recruiting, collegiate rules, academics, etc is a lot to figure out in 6 years. He should be well on his way, but comparing apples to apples….I think we are going in the right direction I think KJ gets 3 more years to see what he can do with a top freshman class.

 

[Judoka]

That post got me to thinking. How many schools have produced national champions in the past 6 years, and how many have they had?

In the six years Jackson has been coaching, 18 schools have produced individual national champions.
Penn State has 9
Cornell has 7
Iowa & Oklahoma State have 6
Ohio State has 5
Iowa State has 4
Illinois, Missouri, and Minnesota have 3
Oklahoma, NC State, Arizona State, & Michigan have 2
Nebraska, Kent State, Lehigh, Harvard, Wisconsin, & Northwestern have 1

In the past six years, only five schools have produced more championships than ISU. Penn State, Cornell, Iowa, Oklahoma State, and Ohio State.

I didn't run the math on the numbers if you looked at number of champions rather than number of championships (to account for guys who win it more than once), but that would put us at least ahead of Ohio State. Since four of theirs are Stieber. And at least tie us with Cornell, since four of those are Dake. So we've produced, at worst, the 4th most number of NCAA Champion wrestlers. And the only one of those guys who won it without Jackson was Varner.

 

[ACSlater]

How many all Americans and national champs are kj's recruits...Subtract Caels guys and he don't look so good

 

[NEICyFan]

KJ was the head FS coach from 2001-2008. He wasn't the coach in 1999-2000. He was also deeply criticized for his performance as coach which lead to his resignation or removal. Zeke Jones took over in 2008, a year before Jackson started at ISU.

The first post does make one think. However, schools like VT, Cornell, Edinboro and Mizzou had zero tradition and comparatively less facilities and support to build on when their coaches took over. It would be interesting to see how those coaches did in their 4th-6th years at their programs and compare.

Also, where is this "top freshman class" you're referring to? I don't think any of the services rated it anywhere close to #1. This seems to be one of the bigger fallacies on the board.

 

[CYKOFAN]

I'm not an avid wrestling fan or at least not since I was at ISU and we were winning national championships almost every year in the late 60's and early 70's. But I do follow it, especially when nationals roll around. I like KJ and in my limited knowledge, he seems to be doing about as well as can be expected. I don't know how much money and support is put into the program compared to some of the other national powers but obviously Cael left for a program more devoted to wrestling, so I suspect KJ doesn't have the money and support of some of the other top programs. If that's not the case somebody with more knowledge about it can inform me.

 

[NEICyFan]

I'm not an avid wrestling fan or at least not since I was at ISU and we were winning national championships almost every year in the late 60's and early 70's. But I do follow it, especially when nationals roll around. I like KJ and in my limited knowledge, he seems to be doing about as well as can be expected. I don't know how much money and support is put into the program compared to some of the other national powers but obviously Cael left for a program more devoted to wrestling, so I suspect KJ doesn't have the money and support of some of the other top programs. If that's not the case somebody with more knowledge about it can inform me.

Wrestling is very well supported at ISU and KJ is one of the highest paid coaches in the country. The facilities are very good. No reason we shouldn't be a top 10 program most every year. Instead, it has been 6 years since we have been in the top 10, we have moved down the standings at NCAAs the past two seasons, and on top of that our best two wrestlers graduate.

That's why many would like to see a change. My guess is that he will be given an extension in the coming days. Let's hope things turn around soon, if so.

 

[cloneswillwin]

Wrestling is very well supported at ISU and KJ is one of the highest paid coaches in the country. The facilities are very good. No reason we shouldn't be a top 10 program most every year. Instead, it has been 6 years since we have been in the top 10, we have moved down the standings at NCAAs the past two seasons, and on top of that our best two wrestlers graduate.

That's why many would like to see a change. My guess is that he will be given an extension in the coming days. Let's hope things turn around soon, if so.

Just. Go. Away - I have an idea buy season tickets at UNI wrestling and become primarily a UNI wrestling fan I think you'd be much happier.

Please Sthaaaaaaaaaap posting and go away.

 

[Land Grant]

Do you have numbers to back up these claims? I am honestly asking. I would spitball that ISU wrestling (including the support club for workout partners) has significantly less support than IA, PSU, Cornell, OSU, tOSU, Minny. Probably somewhat less support than Mich, Wisco, and a few others.

If I'm right, this means that ISU is in fact competing at about the level of its funding. If I'm wrong, then I want to know.

Wrestling is very well supported at ISU and KJ is one of the highest paid coaches in the country. The facilities are very good. No reason we shouldn't be a top 10 program most every year. Instead, it has been 6 years since we have been in the top 10, we have moved down the standings at NCAAs the past two seasons, and on top of that our best two wrestlers graduate.

That's why many would like to see a change. My guess is that he will be given an extension in the coming days. Let's hope things turn around soon, if so.

 

[singsing]

Just. Go. Away - I have an idea buy season tickets at UNI wrestling and become primarily a UNI wrestling fan I think you'd be much happier.

Please Sthaaaaaaaaaap posting and go away.

He's just posting the facts and UNI does have much more to be excited about than ISU. That's freaking sad.

 

[cloneswereall]

He's just posting the facts and UNI does have much more to be excited about than ISU. That's freaking sad.

Please explain to me why UNI has more to be excited about than ISU. Is it because they win more dual meets? Because they sell out their historic gymnasium that they host wrestling meets in? Or is it because Schwab is at the helm? Or wait, I bet I know. It's because they're recruiting primarily Iowa kids, isn't it? Whoop-de-freaking-do.

 

[NEICyFan]

He's just posting the facts and UNI does have much more to be excited about than ISU. That's freaking sad.

Correction: I have not brought up UNI. That's been the work of trolls and they have sucked me into replies. In their mind it is some kind of counterpoint to ISU underacheiving. Makes them feel better.

UNI shouldn't be a measuring stick for ISU. UNI is a mid major while ISU is a major.

 

[NEICyFan]

Please explain to me why UNI has more to be excited about than ISU. Is it because they win more dual meets? Because they sell out their historic gymnasium that they host wrestling meets in? Or is it because Schwab is at the helm? Or wait, I bet I know. It's because they're recruiting primarily Iowa kids, isn't it? Whoop-de-freaking-do.

Since we are playing, the prior two seasons they had their best finishes in 10 years at the NCAAs. Recruiting is going well and they will have 3 top 10 wrestlers going into next season. The fans are motivated--they drew just a shade less than ISU this past season and that's without hosting Iowa or ISU. UNI fans are excited about their program and for good reason. It isn't realistic to think they will compete with the Iowas and ISUs of the world regularly but they are building a nice program.

 

[ACSlater]

If you think that kj is doing a good job and ISU isn't getting as much funding as the top schools in the country then that's the problem. The fans are ok with just being mediocre. By the way kyven was kj's first recruit to win a national championship and unfortunately it don't look like there will be another for awhile as long as he's there.

 

[NEICyFan]

Do you have numbers to back up these claims? I am honestly asking. I would spitball that ISU wrestling (including the support club for workout partners) has significantly less support than IA, PSU, Cornell, OSU, tOSU, Minny. Probably somewhat less support than Mich, Wisco, and a few others.

If I'm right, this means that ISU is in fact competing at about the level of its funding. If I'm wrong, then I want to know.

A quick web search shows KJ makes more than the head coaches at Michigan and Wisconsin. Our wrestling club is also better than theirs. I don't know why one would think we don't support wrestling as well as those schools.

I would agree that ISU doesn't support wrestling as well as the other schools you named. We are no doubt a step behind. But in terms of performance we are far behind. We aren't even the best of the rest.

 

[cloneswillwin]

Since we are playing, the prior two seasons they had their best finishes in 10 years at the NCAAs. Recruiting is going well and they will have 3 top 10 wrestlers going into next season. The fans are motivated--they drew just a shade less than ISU this past season and that's without hosting Iowa or ISU. UNI fans are excited about their program and for good reason. It isn't realistic to think they will compete with the Iowas and ISUs of the world regularly but they are building a nice program.

You never disappoint! Quick question has Iowa State got better since the rock Bottom 35th place team cael left us?

Staaaaaaaaahp posting and my god please just go away.

 

[NEICyFan]

You never disappoint! Quick question has Iowa State got better since the rock Bottom 35th place team cael left us?

Staaaaaaaaahp posting and my god please just go away.

Why did you ask me a question then tell me to go away? Bizarre.

Cael left us a 3rd place team, the best finish in the KJ tenure by far. We did nothing to capitalize on that finish. We have improved from 35th but that was 5 seasons ago. Now we have stagnated and are underacheiving. Wrestling turnarounds should be fairly quick. A handful of good wrestlers do the trick.

 

[CyCrazy]

Why did you ask me a question then tell me to go away? Bizarre.

Cael left us a 3rd place team, the best finish in the KJ tenure by far. We did nothing to capitalize on that finish. We have improved from 35th but that was 5 seasons ago. Now we have stagnated and are underacheiving. Wrestling turnarounds should be fairly quick. A handful of good wrestlers do the trick.

Cael basically burned this place to the ground after he left.

 

[cloneswillwin]

Why did you ask me a question then tell me to go away? Bizarre.

Cael left us a 3rd place team, the best finish in the KJ tenure by far. We did nothing to capitalize on that finish. We have improved from 35th but that was 5 seasons ago. Now we have stagnated and are underacheiving. Wrestling turnarounds should be fairly quick. A handful of good wrestlers do the trick.

Yep just proved how much you know of ISU wrestling Cael left a 3rd place team, not a 3rd place program he took that to PSU. Please god give some great references of where a coach with out a 2 for 1 advantage has been able to do what your asking. All it takes is landing that 1 great class, show me the schools that went from the horrid position Cael left us in to a contender in 6 years. Just for one post show you aren't just a troll, admit that ISU wrestling under KJ has made significant improvement in 6 years. Admit the hole that Cael left was huge, admit that KJ isn't devoid of any ability to lead cyclone wrestling to a better place.

Is KJ the right man to return us to Nichols or even Douglass performance? I doubt it myself, but your credibility is just crap with what you've posted. Say something positive about KJ or just G.T.F.O of here.

 

[cloneswillwin]

If you think that kj is doing a good job and ISU isn't getting as much funding as the top schools in the country then that's the problem. The fans are ok with just being mediocre. By the way kyven was kj's first recruit to win a national championship and unfortunately it don't look like there will be another for awhile as long as he's there.

BTW Cael could only take credit for a total of 1 champion Jon Reader. Zabriskie and Varner were Douglass recruits so I'm cool with your example.

 

[NEICyFan]

Yep just proved how much you know of ISU wrestling Cael left a 3rd place team, not a 3rd place program he took that to PSU. Please god give some great references of where a coach with out a 2 for 1 advantage has been able to do what your asking. All it takes is landing that 1 great class, show me the schools that went from the horrid position Cael left us in to a contender in 6 years. Just for one post show you aren't just a troll, admit that ISU wrestling under KJ has made significant improvement in 6 years. Admit the hole that Cael left was huge, admit that KJ isn't devoid of any ability to lead cyclone wrestling to a better place.

Is KJ the right man to return us to Nichols or even Douglass performance? I doubt it myself, but your credibility is just crap with what you've posted. Say something positive about KJ or just G.T.F.O of here.

Lol I'm well aware of what went down. No doubt there was going to be a huge drop off after that first year due to the change in coaches and what transpired. We've improved. No doubt. But have we improved enough? Should wrestling turnarounds take 6+ years? What are reasonable expectations for this program? Do you see us meeting those in the near future?

I would like to think you know where I stand but my stance does seem to get distorted. I don't expect elite. I do expect top 10 most years with a run on the top 5 every few seasons. 14th place should be the anomaly, not commonplace. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Go back 5 years. Ask yourself: is out program performing well if we do not crack the top 10 in be next 5 seasons? I would argue that no one would be pleased with that hypothetical at the time.

Others seem to throw darts and not express or want to debate what the expected performances are for the program. I welcome anyone willing to lay out expectations.