Stop underutilizing Ward

[madguy30]

Another stupid argument that seems to be rooted in contrarianism more than anything else.

Make him PROVE he can't handle the minutes. Thus far the eye test and metrics show he's an insanely effective player and criminally underutilized. In fact, there is no player in the conference as underutilized as Ward. You are making bogus assumption about complaints that can't even happen because a player is being arbitrarily limited. He's effective and has shown no signs of being limited or tired. So why are we limited him?

That's not to say Ward shouldn't be sat in certain situations. Where we can rotate players, at the end of a (close game) where we expect to be fouled, he obviously shouldn't be out there. But he's the best man for the job in almost every other situation, even if he does (like almost all of our players) have limitations (offensive moves for example). Even on that he's showing signs of coming around.

And here we go again with assuming you know why decisions are made by the staff without knowing.

This is weird stuff.

Entertaining though.

 

[Marcelason78]

…..This is about as dumb……

Otz is arbitrarily limiting his minutes despite him being one of our best players.….
.

I didn’t think I would ever see TJ’s decision making described as ’arbitrary’.

 

[3TrueFans]

This is a terrible argument.

This is about as dumb as saying we should have limited Milan's minutes because he struggled defensively early in the year. The only way a player is going to get better is if you allow them to play through some mistakes and learn as they go. At times Ward has limited himself with fouls, I've admitted as much, but he's had FOUR games with 2 fouls or less in conference play. In such games he's averaged about 16.5 minutes a game.

Hey, the guy was injured and I was all for being conservative before conference play. Since it's started I've seen nothing from Ward that indicates he can't handle a higher workload. That doesn't mean 40 minutes a game, but it sure as hell (at least) means in the mid 20s, closer to 30 if she shows he can handle that.

Otz is arbitrarily limiting his minutes despite him being one of our best players. Do we sit Lipsey more so he can stay fresh? Or Milan? No, you play them as much as they can until it's shown to be detrimental.

TJ is flat out ******* up with Ward. There is really no substantial evidence to the contrary.

You keep saying "arbitrary", have you talked to TJ about what his reasoning is? Or it's arbitrary because you don't like it?

 

[Statefan10]

Another stupid argument that seems to be rooted in contrarianism more than anything else.

Make him PROVE he can't handle the minutes. Thus far the eye test and metrics show he's an insanely effective player and criminally underutilized. In fact, there is no player in the conference as underutilized as Ward. You are making bogus assumption about complaints that can't even happen because a player is being arbitrarily limited. He's effective and has shown no signs of being limited or tired. So why are we limited him?

That's not to say Ward shouldn't be sat in certain situations. Where we can rotate players, at the end of a (close game) where we expect to be fouled, he obviously shouldn't be out there. But he's the best man for the job in almost every other situation, even if he does (like almost all of our players) have limitations (offensive moves for example). Even on that he's showing signs of coming around.

When Ward picks up his stupid fouls, it's usually because he's tired. I also think that as we get into the true heart of conference play, you're going to see Ward play more. Again, TJ isn't an idiot and knows far more about the limitations and abilities of his players than we do.

 

[3TrueFans]

Do we sit people to get rest? Um, yes, in literally every game.

 

[ZRF]

Comparing Ward's ability to arguably one of the best all around PG's in the nation in Lipsey as well as possibly the best FR in college basketball in Milan is criminal on your part. Cmon.

Actually it's not and it's not even based on an opinion.

Lipsey is probably the most valuable player on the floor. Why? He plays a premium college position (PG), has proven he can handle a higher workload, and we don't have much depth at the position. Milan is great and shown massive improvement but that's irrelevant. In fact, I dont' know why you bring him into the discussion at all.

This thread is about Ward, how effective he is, and how he's being underutilized. It's not just my "******** opinion"; there's very strong video and advanced stat evidence to back up what I'm saying. Honestly, but not surprisingly, most of the retorts in here are anecdotal nonsense.

 

[ClonesFTW]

Two things:

1. If you look purely at "advanced stats" like player efficiency and offensive/defensive rating it's easy to argue Ward is actually the most important player on our team.
2. He averages 6.1 fouls per 40 minutes.

We'd love to get him more minutes but I believe TJ has to keep #2 in mind.

 

[HoraceGrant]

Some stats for each player in conference games only so far this year:

 

[cydnote]

Actually it's not and it's not even based on an opinion.

Lipsey is probably the most valuable player on the floor. Why? He plays a premium college position (PG), has proven he can handle a higher workload, and we don't have much depth at the position. Milan is great and shown massive improvement but that's irrelevant. In fact, I dont' know why you bring him into the discussion at all.

This thread is about Ward, how effective he is, and how he's being underutilized. It's not just my "******** opinion"; there's very strong video and advanced stat evidence to back up what I'm saying. Honestly, but not surprisingly, most of the retorts in here are anecdotal nonsense.

ZRF=anecdotal nonsense

 

[3TrueFans]

Maybe we're actually underutilizing everyone? None of our guys, even our best players, are playing even near 40 minutes a game. Very arbitrary indeed.

 

[ZRF]

When Ward picks up his stupid fouls, it's usually because he's tired. I also think that as we get into the true heart of conference play, you're going to see Ward play more. Again, TJ isn't an idiot and knows far more about the limitations and abilities of his players than we do.

Entirely not true and this is hyperbolic at best.

Ward's issues are when he's TOO active and/or contesting high percentage shots. If a guy had a clear break to the basket and you try to block in the process of a dunk it's a dumb foul. First and foremost it keeps an effective player off the floor and two it will often result in an and 1 situation. The one thing Ward does, even when he doesn't have to, is leave his feet unecessarily. There is nothing I've seen that suggests Ward is fouling because he is tired.

Given his minutes and the specific fouls themselves this a ludicrous statement. In fact, it's downright laughable.

 

[3TrueFans]

Two things:

1. If you look purely at "advanced stats" like player efficiency and offensive/defensive rating it's easy to argue Ward is actually the most important player on our team.
2. He averages 6.1 fouls per 40 minutes.

We'd love to get him more minutes but I believe TJ has to keep #2 in mind.

#2 is interesting, as I understand it you only get 5 fouls per game? I bet TJ doesn't even know that.

 

[Marcelason78]

……This thread is about Ward, how effective he is, and how he's being underutilized. It's not just my "******** opinion"; there's very strong video and advanced stat evidence to back up what I'm saying. Honestly, but not surprisingly, most of the retorts in here are anecdotal nonsense.

Evidently, Pollard’s kid stat crunching is useless and he should be fired immediately.

 

[ZRF]

Maybe we're actually underutilizing everyone? None of our guys, even our best players, are playing even near 40 minutes a game. Very arbitrary indeed.

Have you ever thought about changing your handle to "Strawman"? Almost all of your retorts counter an argument that was never even made.

I never said everyone was being under or overutilized. Just Ward.

 

[madguy30]

Actually it's not and it's not even based on an opinion.

Lipsey is probably the most valuable player on the floor. Why? He plays a premium college position (PG), has proven he can handle a higher workload, and we don't have much depth at the position. Milan is great and shown massive improvement but that's irrelevant. In fact, I dont' know why you bring him into the discussion at all.

This thread is about Ward, how effective he is, and how he's being underutilized. It's not just my "******** opinion"; there's very strong video and advanced stat evidence to back up what I'm saying. Honestly, but not surprisingly, most of the retorts in here are anecdotal nonsense.

Sure about that?

 

[Statefan10]

Entirely not true and this is hyperbolic at best.

Ward's issues are when he's TOO active and/or contesting high percentage shots. If a guy had a clear break to the basket and you try to block in the process of a dunk it's a dumb foul. First and foremost it keeps an effective player off the floor and two it will often result in an and 1 situation. The one thing Ward does, even when he doesn't have to, is leave his feet unecessarily. There is nothing I've seen that suggests Ward is fouling because he is tired.

Given his minutes and the specific fouls themselves this a ludicrous statement. In fact, it's downright laughable.

The fact you're claiming my post to be hyperbolic is incredibly ironic. And him contesting high percentage shots are not stupid fouls those are actually good fouls. It's the fouls where he reaches or creates contact far away from the basket, which I'll say, he hasn't done much in a while.

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, this rotation is to keep both guys out of foul trouble because if both do get into foul trouble we could be royally screwed? What is an absolute fact is that we've played both Rob and Ward similarly and are getting a lot from both of them and that's yielded us a #12 ranking while beating two top 10 teams. The formula here is working and because you don't like it, you're going at our coaches head claiming you know more than him.

 

[Statefan10]

Actually it's not and it's not even based on an opinion.

Lipsey is probably the most valuable player on the floor. Why? He plays a premium college position (PG), has proven he can handle a higher workload, and we don't have much depth at the position. Milan is great and shown massive improvement but that's irrelevant. In fact, I dont' know why you bring him into the discussion at all.

This thread is about Ward, how effective he is, and how he's being underutilized. It's not just my "******** opinion"; there's very strong video and advanced stat evidence to back up what I'm saying. Honestly, but not surprisingly, most of the retorts in here are anecdotal nonsense.

This is a terrible argument.

This is about as dumb as saying we should have limited Milan's minutes because he struggled defensively early in the year. The only way a player is going to get better is if you allow them to play through some mistakes and learn as they go. At times Ward has limited himself with fouls, I've admitted as much, but he's had FOUR games with 2 fouls or less in conference play. In such games he's averaged about 16.5 minutes a game.

Hey, the guy was injured and I was all for being conservative before conference play. Since it's started I've seen nothing from Ward that indicates he can't handle a higher workload. That doesn't mean 40 minutes a game, but it sure as hell (at least) means in the mid 20s, closer to 30 if she shows he can handle that.

Otz is arbitrarily limiting his minutes despite him being one of our best players. Do we sit Lipsey more so he can stay fresh? Or Milan? No, you play them as much as they can until it's shown to be detrimental.

TJ is flat out ******* up with Ward. There is really no substantial evidence to the contrary.

I'm literally just using your own argument.

 

[cydnote]

ZRF reminds me of a phrase taken from the album released in the early 70's entitled "A child's garden of grass": I can lift 350# over my head . . .but still, nobody likes me

 

[NoCreativity]

The fact you're claiming my post to be hyperbolic is incredibly ironic.

I wouldn't get too upset. The other say I made the ludicrous claim that Kansas is good at basketball and he called it hyperbole.

 

[chadly82]

I agree that Ward needs more minutes, but he stays fresh with the minutes he gets. Will he still be as effective with more minutes? It’s not costing this team any wins with the way the rotation is now, so I don’t think it needs to change until it does. I’ll trust T.J. and staff.

100% this