Statistically what went wrong last night

[jbhtexas]

Different team...OU pounds it inside and kicks out for the three.

ISU showed they could get offensive rebounds and second chance points against the number #2 team in the country, but then they put that all in closet because they were apparently afraid of unranked KSU's transition game. Again, what would it have hurt to try crashing the offensive boards for 5 or 10 minutes to make KSU prove their transition game?

Playing in fear of the other team's dupposed strengths without even trying to impose on the opposition your own strengths or thing you might be good at is a loser's mentality. We don't know what would have happened last night had ISU tried to crash the offensive boards because ISU never tried it. That's what's sad...

 

[kg-cyclone]

ISU showed they could get offensive rebounds and second chance points against the number #2 team in the country, but then they put that all in closet because they were apparently afraid of unranked KSU's transition game. Again, what would it have hurt to try crashing the offensive boards for 5 or 10 minutes to make KSU prove their transition game?

Playing in fear of the other team's dupposed strengths without even trying to impose on the opposition your own strengths or thing you might be good at is a loser's mentality. We don't know what would have happened last night had ISU tried to crash the offensive boards because ISU never tried it. That's what's sad...

If you can't see the difference...nothing I say is going to matter.

 

[yoteforever]

It was ok, but I had a tough time getting past the "Brackins may be the MVP of the Big 12" part.

I understand the rebuttal, but other than Griffin, name a better player. In all honesty, I forgot about him when I typed that line. I am not a "blind" fan, but other than Griffin (and Griffin is better) who is better than Craig?

I watch alot of basketball, maybe go to 50-60 games a year. Craig is good, and getting better, that's what I like about him.

 

[CloneAggie]

I understand the rebuttal, but other than Griffin, name a better player. In all honesty, I forgot about him when I typed that line. I am not a "blind" fan, but other than Griffin (and Griffin is better) who is better than Craig?

I watch alot of basketball, maybe go to 50-60 games a year. Craig is good, and getting better, that's what I like about him.

I'll agree that he is probably the runner up. Forgetting about Griffin was a pretty big omission though.:wink:

 

[jbhtexas]

If you can't see the difference...nothing I say is going to matter.

Just condescend to my ignorance one last time, and and answer this one question...what would it have hurt to try crashing the offensive boards for 5 or 10 minutes to make KSU prove their transition game? It's not like ISU would have gotten an extra loss in the W/L record for trying it...

 

[yoteforever]

I'll agree that he is probably the runner up. Forgetting about Griffin was a pretty big omission though.:wink:

I'm old

 

[kg-cyclone]

Just condescend to my ignorance one last time,and and answer this one question...what would it have hurt to try crashing the offensive boards for 5 or 10 minutes to make KSU prove their transition game?

I think you will find if you just ask a question...I am pretty good at getting back to you and answering the question as honestly as I can. However, 99.99 percent of your posts (directed towards myself) are not just a question...And for the most part I don't like to talk about posts that are just ******** about not winning. I'm fully aware of lack of winning.

Anyway, would it have hurt?

Early in the game...yes
Late in the game...no

 

[cyclonenum1]

If you can't see the difference...nothing I say is going to matter.

This from the guy that told us we were going to be a better team without WJ?!?

 

[kg-cyclone]

This from the guy that told us we were going to be a better team without WJ?!?

Short term clearly no...long term we are okay.

 

[jbhtexas]

Anyway, would it have hurt?

Early in the game...yes
Late in the game...no

The Big 12 does not tabulate fast break points in their stats that I can see, but kenpom.com does calculate game tempo/pace, which should be somewhat of an indicator as to whether a team is a "transition" type team or not.

Presently, OU is 5th in the Big 12 with an adjusted tempo/pace of 68.9, KSU is 6th at 68.9, UT is 8th at 67.8, and ISU is 9th at 65.4. OU and KSU (and to a lesser extend UT) have a very similar game pace.

ISU did very well against OU on the offensive boards (11 offensive rebounds / 14 second chance points) and against UT (13 offensive rebounds 13 second chance points).

So...the available stats do not indicate to me that KSU plays significantly more of a transition game than OU or UT. ISU did very well crashing the offensive boards against the ranked teams UT and OU with game pace similar to unranked KSU, yet ISU chose not to crash the boards against KSU, supposedly out of fear that they would be hurt by KSU's transition game. ISU and got zero second chance points against KSU. The 13/14 extra second chance points could have helped immensely.

So, some more questions for you:

Why do you consider KSU to have a strong transition game?

Why do you think it would have hurt ISU to crash the offensive boards against KSU, given that ISU has had success doing that against ranked teams with game pace similar to KSU?

I'm not attacking you...I'm just trying to understand why you have come to the conclusions you have, because the stats I have available to me lead me to conclusions different than the ones you have reached.

 

[cyco2000]

I've said from the start of the season that we are not a good rebounding team...If we are not a good rebounding team on defense; what makes people think that sending more guys for an offense rebound is a good idea against a transition team? I don't mind the talk of getting out coached, but I would like to see reasoning behind it.

Well, I see that sending one or zero to the offensive glass didn't stop us from getting beat.

Maybe we try sending 2-3 people to the offensive glass. The worst that can happen is that we get beat. But, it may also be an opportunity to find some more offense--something that is lacking for this team.

 

[kg-cyclone]

The Big 12 does not tabulate fast break points in their stats that I can see, but kenpom.com does calculate game tempo/pace, which should be somewhat of an indicator as to whether a team is a "transition" type team or not.

Presently, OU is 5th in the Big 12 with an adjusted tempo/pace of 68.9, KSU is 6th at 68.9, UT is 8th at 67.8, and ISU is 9th at 65.4. OU and KSU (and to a lesser extend UT) have a very similar game pace.

ISU did very well against OU on the offensive boards (11 offensive rebounds / 14 second chance points) and against UT (13 offensive rebounds 13 second chance points).

So...the available stats do not indicate to me that KSU plays significantly more of a transition game than OU or UT. ISU did very well crashing the offensive boards against the ranked teams UT and OU with game pace similar to unranked KSU, yet ISU chose not to crash the boards against KSU, supposedly out of fear that they would be hurt by KSU's transition game. ISU and got zero second chance points against KSU. The 13/14 extra second chance points could have helped immensely.

Stats definitely have there place...personnally, I don't get to caught up in them...I guess, I just trust what I see...right or wrong that's how I view things.

So, some more questions for you:

Why do you consider KSU to have a strong transition game? When they get pushing the ball it gets them into there offense. To me they were much better shooting the ball while pushing it than they were in the half court. They did knock down some late shots in the half court late in the game.

Why do you think it would have hurt ISU to crash the offensive boards against KSU, given that ISU has had success doing that against ranked teams with game pace similar to KSU? I'm not saying offensive rebounds are a bad thing, but if I had to choose to send 4 guys back on defense or send 4 guy to the rim against KSU with our current team...I pick defense.

I'm not attacking you...I'm just trying to understand why you have come to the conclusions you have, because the stats I have available to me lead me to conclusions different than the ones you have reached.

 

[kg-cyclone]

Well, I see that sending one or zero to the offensive glass didn't stop us from getting beat.

Maybe we try sending 2-3 people to the offensive glass. The worst that can happen is that we get beat. But, it may also be an opportunity to find some more offense--something that is lacking for this team.

Again...IMO, problem was not offensive rebounding. The problem was settling for long, contested jump shots and defensive rebounding. If we execute on offense, then there is no rebound to get.

 

[cyclonenum1]

If we execute on offense, then there is no rebound to get.

That's right...if we shot 100% from the field then the offensive glass wouldn't matter.

I'm not sure how "inside" the program you are but I think what everyone on here is trying to convey is that WHAT WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO DO RIGHT NOW IS NOT WORKING!

 

[cyco2000]

Again...IMO, problem was not offensive rebounding. The problem was settling for long, contested jump shots and defensive rebounding. If we execute on offense, then there is no rebound to get.

In general, I agree with you. But, so far we haven't excecuted much offense on the road in the B12, so maybe we need to adjust what we're doing to make up for that.

I agree that our team shouldn't be sending 4 guys to the boards. Maybe 2 or 3 would be something to try?

I know you hate the losing just like all of us. I'm glad you are on here bringing up positives. This wouldn't be theraputic for me if everyone on here was ********. I'm not off the McD bandwagon. I don't know how to coach, I don't know how to recruit. I just know that something isn't happening, because we shouldn't be this poor right now.

 

[jbhtexas]

Again...IMO, problem was not offensive rebounding. The problem was settling for long, contested jump shots and defensive rebounding. If we execute on offense, then there is no rebound to get.

In theory, I agree with you. But in reality, at some point, you have to look at your team's shooting %, and adjust accordingly. ISU is a 43% FG team about 3/4 of the way through the schedule (40% in conference). It's not going to get much better than that. In order to win with that shooting %, the team either has to take alot more shots, or they have to start cleaning up the misses on the offensive board.

Even when ISU gets closer shots, they miss a good part of the time. A number of the second chance points in the OU game came cleaning up missed chippies.

 

[kg-cyclone]

In general, I agree with you. But, so far we haven't excecuted much offense on the road in the B12, so maybe we need to adjust what we're doing to make up for that.

I agree that our team shouldn't be sending 4 guys to the boards. Maybe 2 or 3 would be something to try?

I know you hate the losing just like all of us. I'm glad you are on here bringing up positives. This wouldn't be theraputic for me if everyone on here was ********. I'm not off the McD bandwagon. I don't know how to coach, I don't know how to recruit. I just know that something isn't happening, because we shouldn't be this poor right now.

How many guys on this team can out jump KSU for an offensive rebound? And who are they? With Clarke and/or WJ, I would agree.

 

[CloneAggie]

How many guys on this team can out jump KSU for an offensive rebound? And who are they? With Clarke and/or WJ, I would agree.

Kenny Pratt averaged 2.88 offensive rebounds (good enough for 9th in the league) as a senior. How many guys was he out jumping?:wink:

 

[cyclonenum1]

How many guys on this team can out jump KSU for an offensive rebound? And who are they? With Clarke and/or WJ, I would agree.

Man, I hope you realize some of the best rebounders of all time had limited leaping ability and were not even that big (from a height perspective)...Moses Malone, Wes Unseld, Charles Barkley to just name a few real quick. Rebounding is about effort, position, and knowing a little physics (how a ball bounces / caroms off the rim / glass).

 

[kg-cyclone]

Man, I hope you realize some of the best rebounders of all time had limited leaping ability and were not even that big (from a height perspective)...Moses Malone, Wes Unseld, Charles Barkley to just name a few real quick. Rebounding is about effort, position, and knowing a little physics (how a ball bounces / caroms off the rim / glass).

Sounds good...Num1 is getting the chance to name the three guys on current ISU roster that we are sending to the offensive glass, no matter who the opponent is...Ready, Set, Go!