Seemingly never ending Iowa MBB thread (still going.....)

[Mr Janny]

I know it's been harped on a lot, both here and on Hawkeye boards, but can anyone think of a reasonable explanation for Fran's rotations? It's not like this is the first year where his bench has been longer than it needed to be. He basically does it every year. I don't understand it, and I don't know if he's ever been really grilled about it, because it's bizarre.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Their freshmen are pretty good imo, and in a couple years they'll have a balanced roster. But it's tough to rely on freshman and inexperienced sophomores, and Fran doesn't do them many favors. Imagine guys like Naz, Thomas, and Morris as freshmen without Kane, Georges, and Ejim.

 

[NoCreativity]

I know it's been harped on a lot, both here and on Hawkeye boards, but can anyone think of a reasonable explanation for Fran's rotations? It's not like this is the first year where his bench has been longer than it needed to be. He basically does it every year. I don't understand it, and I don't know if he's ever been really grilled about it, because it's bizarre.

Last night, he looked to be in desperation mode, just plugging and playing anything that he thought could give a spark. I mean, when Dailey is getting minutes and he comes in and clanks a wide open 3 off the side of the backboard you have serious problems.

 

[CyTwins]

Their freshmen are pretty good imo, and in a couple years they'll have a balanced roster. But it's tough to rely on freshman and inexperienced sophomores, and Fran doesn't do them many favors. Imagine guys like Naz, Thomas, and Morris as freshmen without Kane, Georges, and Ejim.

Which ones?

 

[NoCreativity]

They're going to be even worse next year when he's gone. Fran is lucky he got hurt this summer or he probably would be playing overseas now

And yeah, if thats how they are going to play when Jok isnt around they are in serious trouble next year. Unless his kid comes in as some freshman all-american next year I dont see any signs pointing to them being improved.

 

[kentkel]

Double-digit scorer AND a "heady" player.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Which ones?

I think all of them would develop into having consequential roles on a winning team if at ISU. A couple of them would be optimally suited for more 8th or 9th man type, but they'd likely be effective and efficient in those roles. What they don't have yet is that Georges/Kane type, but they're not exactly alone in that, and they should end up a complete enough team to still be good.

 

[CyTwins]

I think all of them would develop into having consequential roles on a winning team if at ISU. A couple of them would be optimally suited for more 8th or 9th man type, but they'd likely be effective and efficient in those roles. What they don't have yet is that Georges/Kane type, but they're not exactly alone in that, and they should end up a complete enough team to still be good.

Cook and Pemsl are the only freshman that I would want in an ISU uniform and Pemsl has been garbage lately.

 

[Pitt_Clone]

Baer forgot the 5 D's!

 

[madguy30]

Holy crap, he considers Woody and Gesell to be success stories! Are you kidding me? Fran took 4 star players and turned them into 3 star players with those two. If I were a hawkeye fan, (thank the Lord I'm not) Woody and Gesell are not the guys I would point to for proof of Fran's coaching ability.

I'd have to put into question whomever rated 'Woody' as a 4 Star recruit.

A really bad athlete, and really bad at basketball from what I saw. And I wonder if malicious dirty play goes into rating someone lower...that was one of his strengths.

 

[madguy30]

Is that the Baer kid? I think I heard the BTN announcer compare him to Wisky's Ethan Happ last night. I didn't think it was a DMR or C-R area reporter calling the game.

 

[NoCreativity]

I think a lot of ISU fans are dumb but I'll just leave this here...


I am just wanting to hear everyone's opinion on the best/worst case scenario for the Hawks the next 5 or so years. I think it is clear that our freshman have been scouted and adjustments have been made. The good ones find a way to overcome this and are better for it. So, with the current roster and incoming recruits what is the realistic ceiling/floor?

Personally, I think after a few transfers clear up playing time for recruits and the core matures a bit we could be looking at a very dangerous team. I think the ceiling would be multiple Big Ten regular season championships and an elite 8/final 4 run. For this to happen we will need to learn to close out games, of course, which remains to be seen. We NEED a go to guy who can hit a big shot. Iowa has been desperate for a cold blooded finisher.


He must be assuming that Fran resigns and the new guy brings in the next Ray Allen.

Fans actually said this? Lmao, they are delusional if they think a final four run is possible with this group. They already had all 4-stars and a couple borderline 5-star players the last few years and the ceiling was a curbstomping in the 2nd round. What makes them think they are going to the final four with 3-star players now?

 

[LLCoolCY]

Their freshmen are pretty good imo, and in a couple years they'll have a balanced roster. But it's tough to rely on freshman and inexperienced sophomores, and Fran doesn't do them many favors. Imagine guys like Naz, Thomas, and Morris as freshmen without Kane, Georges, and Ejim.

Let's not compare the EIU frosh to Naz Thomas, Morris. The ISU freshmen noted were able to earn for playing time on a big 12 level for a top 25 roster. Fred was considering Red Shirting Morris before he arrived on campus and he earned a starting position when he was ready. Not given minutes just cause there isn't anyone else to play. Even on a top half B12/tourney top 25 team all the ISU freshman contributed even as role players. I don't see the EIU guy getting minutes over any of Thomas, Morris, or Naz those years. Cook is the only one I see would eventually be a starter on a Big 12 team.

Freshmen have room to grow and improve but I haven't seen them as anything exceptional with the time they have been given yet. In the end it is more of a staff problem not having a balanced class forcing young players to play before they are ready. Fran seemly ignoring transfers and JC is part of the problem and the reason for their record this year.

 

[NoCreativity]

Cook and Pemsl are the only freshman that I would want in an ISU uniform and Pemsl has been garbage lately.

Cook hasnt been playing much better, hes non-existent on defense and a turnover machine when he gets the ball.

 

[CyTwins]

Cook hasnt been playing much better, hes non-existent on defense and a turnover machine when he gets the ball.

I think Cook with some good coaching could be an asset with his athletic ability. Pemsl is a big body that can score around the rim. Moss, Kriener and Bohannon just plain suck and wouldn't get minutes here

 

[NoCreativity]

I think Cook with some good coaching could be an asset with his athletic ability. Pemsl is a big body that can score around the rim. Moss, Kriener and Bohannon just plain suck and wouldn't get minutes here

Yeah, Cook has the raw talent for sure, just not sure hes being coached very effectively or that he has a strong basketball IQ.

 

[CyTwins]

Yeah, Cook has the raw talent for sure, just not sure hes being coached very effectively or that he has a strong basketball IQ.

There's a reason someone with his size and athletic ability was still ranked in the 70's in his class

 

[Acylum]

I know it's been harped on a lot, both here and on Hawkeye boards, but can anyone think of a reasonable explanation for Fran's rotations? It's not like this is the first year where his bench has been longer than it needed to be. He basically does it every year. I don't understand it, and I don't know if he's ever been really grilled about it, because it's bizarre.

I really think it's because they're all basically the same exact type of players.

 

[NoCreativity]

I really think it's because they're all basically the same exact type of players.

Exactly, without Jok they are just a bunch of role players who cant consistently put anything together, hence the non-stop substitutions.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Let's not compare the EIU frosh to Naz Thomas, Morris. The ISU freshmen noted were able to earn for playing time on a big 12 level for a top 25 roster. Fred was considering Red Shirting Morris before he arrived on campus and he earned a starting position when he was ready. Not given minutes just cause there isn't anyone else to play. Even on a top half B12/tourney top 25 team all the ISU freshman contributed even as role players. I don't see the EIU guy getting minutes over any of Thomas, Morris, or Naz those years.

Nothing says earn like the musical chairs Fred was forced to play. We had no choice but to play them and hope some of the best players in Cyclone history could pull them along until they developed. Btw, you are clearly forgetting Naz's freshman year.

They played before they were ready, but thankfully had guys like Georges, Kane, Ejim, and even Hogue to rely on. Had they been ready that's not a team a few shots away from 9-9 in conference. They had modest numbers and roles due to being with great players is a reasonable defense in the comparison, but at the same time it's incredibly insecure to deny they had the benefit of getting to be the side-kicks to great players. Iowa's freshman pg would have played and the others right there with a freshman Thomas or freshman Naz. The EIU bigs undoubtedly win this argument as they're better than the void of freshmen bigs we've had since Georges.

Bohannon, Cook, Pemsl and a few of their other young guys next to Kane, Georges, Ejim, and Hogue under Hoiberg is team CF is going nuts over.