It’s the lack of awareness or maybe it’s denial of where this program currently sits that bothers me.
Robert Jones commits to ISU
- Thread starter baagoe
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It’s the lack of awareness or maybe it’s denial of where this program currently sits that bothers me.
I will say that I'm not necessarily in agreement about the "where this program currently sits" part. TJ was instrumental in turning this around in 2 years for Fred. This time we don't have to wait for the sit-out year. There's going to be 1400-1500 available players. That means every school in America can get 4+ guys. TJ and Co. may have to moneyball together the right 5 guys(or whatever) but given the overall situation this can happen fairly quickly. This is nothing like rebuilding a football program. We have name recognition, Hilton Coliseum and some not too distant success. It won't be easy for him but the opportunity is there to be a story next year. People keep asking "Why take this kid now". The answer is simple really. They think he's a serviceable kid in the system. TJ is not in panic or desperation mode so he's finding and taking players that he thinks can make an impact.
Agreed on Cato. Not saying Jones =Cato or anything like that, but Cato came in with similar stats as Jones. I do realize that that was over 20 years ago and the game has changed. I just think it’s worth noting that he might be capable of more like others have been.
Kelvin Cato College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Kelvin Cato - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
These first two guys are fine, but TJ better be also bringing in a couple starters as well. We need some starter level players, we currently don’t hardly have any.
We got a lot of people that look at numbers and think sports are just a numbers thing. Sports are a puzzle and numbers are just one piece. You are dealing with personalities on top of that. This kid could have a role that was discussed with him that has nothing to do with what produced the statistics at Denver. If he was given a role and has bought into it, then it's a great get from a size, athleticism, and education standpoint.
Too many people on here think they see the puzzle that needs to be put together. They think it's one of those 10 piece puzzles to 5 year olds when it's far more complex.
99% of these kids don't recognize Iowa State from Oregon State or Clemson or Wichita State. They definitely don't know what Hilton Coliseum is. They see 2-22. Not 10-14. 2 and freakin' 22. That's a dumpster fire with little upside to most transfers.
Jones is a multiple year athletic guy that rebounds. To me he's the type of guy that can supply instant depth and possibly a future starter. If he wasn't a guy Green thought he could develop they wouldn't of taken him.
Last year at this time we suffered through 0-20whatever. This year they are grabbing guys early that can develop. It's been stated multiple times our best returners don't have any experience. Do we know the humerus are coming? Ofcourse not. All they can do is build the relationships and know the returns will come.
Last year at this time we suffered through 0-20whatever. This year they are grabbing guys early that can develop. It's been stated multiple times our best returners don't have any experience. Do we know the humerus are coming? Ofcourse not. All they can do is build the relationships and know the returns will come.
I appreciate everyone's optimism on here. I really do. But I think people are underestimating just how lacking in talent we are at the moment. We can't "role guy" our way into becoming competitive in the Big 12 with the talent we have on this team right now. He's got to find a few guys who can come in and be impactful. I'm all for "good practice players" and "culture guys", but at the end of the day we have to find some guys who can contribute at a high level in the Big 12. Because right now we have precisely 2 of them, and who knows if they will be back next year.
So I'm glad these kids are here, and I'm glad they have a role to fill. But his remaining scholarships need to go to high impact guys.
So I'm glad these kids are here, and I'm glad they have a role to fill. But his remaining scholarships need to go to high impact guys.
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Define high level. Because you need players that can defend at high levels, score at high levels, pass at high levels, ect. If these players have roles defined for them and they work within those roles while expanding their games, they can help us. Not every player needs to be the guy that's gonna get your 12-15 points a game. Develop the culture of hard work and daily habits and good things will happen.
I think first and foremost we need high level scorers. Even in games where we managed competitiveness last year, we'd have long stretches without scoring that doomed us. Aside from Bolton and JCL (at times), we had no one who could get their own shot. Ideally though, with our deficiencies, you'd be able to find guys who address a few needs at once. Guys can have more than one strength.
And while I know not every player needs to be a 12-15 ppg guy, I'm not sure we have more than maybe one of those guys on our roster right now. I think people forget we play in the best, deepest basketball league int he country. Grit and determination can only get you so far.
So here's hoping they can come in and prove me wrong.
We were also the worst coached team in the big 12. Some of these guys might be able to play better than their numbers based on coaching. Grit and determination get you everywhere, that's how you hone your skills. You keep working. Add guys with the measurables with grit and determination combined with competent coaching and you have a championship caliber team. You want guys that are willing to work on deficient areas. Go look at Naz. He saw we needed more shooting after his freshman year, so what's he do? He goes and works on his shooting and becomes elite. Naz had the measurables and he put in the work. If you don't have the measurables, you gotta work harder.
If you looked at last years team and thought "that's a group that can be successful with proper coaching" I'm afraid you may be in for a bit of a letdown. We won 2 games. We didn't win a single Big 12 game. Did poor coaching lend to that? Sure. But it's primarily because of a substantial talent gap between us and our competition.
I have no desire to bash these kids. I'm glad they're here, and I'm glad coach sees potential in them. I just am afraid we may be in for another year at the bottom of the Big 12 if TJ can't find a way to get kids who are ready to play at a high, Big 12 level right away. Because last year we weren't a few steps away from competitiveness. We were worlds away.
None of last years squad could dribble, shoot, pass, or defend. All areas that can be worked on, but you can't fix them overnight. A lot of issues can be fixed through coaching and work. We're just behind right now. And I expect to suck next year, we need to build with a not quit mentality before anything.
I would actually argue coaching cost last years team a couple wins among @WVU, KSU, @Baylor, WVU, @OU, @TCU, and TCU. The team at times looked competent enough to get a couple wins but a breakdown in coaching led to the team looking absolutely lost for the final few minutes.
Maybe the team truly was awful and teams we were close with were looking past us. But I feel its closer that the team was bad but not 0-19 bad and that poor coaching led them to that record.
We win a game or two with another coach. Someone would’ve done something that would’ve led to a different outcome.
That’s honestly just how bad Prohm was..
Kids are not as dumb as you make them out to be.
With Covid, won't he have 3 left to play? I can see not being excited about the guy but there is very little risk here. A likely worst case scenario is he grad transfers in two years. Who knows, maybe as a fourth/fifth year guy, he can give you something. With 13 scholarships and 3 other bigs on the roster, there isn't much to lose with this kid.
I have been outspoken in my frustrations since the TJ hire. I am not in denial of where the program is. 2-22, last place in the Big 12, bottom third in the Big 12 in 3/4 years...yadda yadda yadda. The hiring process was irritating but it's over and done. I have moved on to not buying into the bs being thrown out there that TJ is bringing in culture guys. Culture guys are fine and good, but are they good basketball players too, or just culture guys? I don't expect TJ and his staff to go out there and sign 3 of the top 4 available prospects, I just don't want him to settle for guys in the 400-500 range either. Our entire returning roster is already full of players like that. TJ has essentially tossed out Prohm's low performing players and brought in his own, which is what happens in a coaching change I suppose.
Also it's the coaches jobs to sell the school and program to recruits and there absolutely are angles to work with.
Matt Campbell has been successful because of a lot of reasons, but one of them has been his ability to sell a vision to recruits that may never have given Iowa State a chance otherwise. Look at getting Purdy even with late pushes from Texas A&M and Alabama. I get that last year's record may turn off some players who are looking to join a team who's already winning.
But with the amount of guys in the portal and with more entering every day, there are others who may love the opportunity to come be a big contributor on a team in a premier conference and TJ can hopefully sell the fan base and support that Iowa State has to sweeten the deal. A lot of guys have made a lot of money playing pro basketball after Iowa State and recently more have been able to make it in the NBA. Hell, even if the past two years have been awful, TJ can point at the potential NBA ROY as evidence that it can be done here.