I doubt they ever join the Big 10 too. ND for whatever reason seems to hate the Big 10.
Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)
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Notre Dame hates the Big Ten with good reason, they tried to destroy them by getting teams not to play them
If we added UW and UO this round we’d be at 18 schools. If they left we would just sit tight at 16. We will be able to expand again with ACC leftovers whenever that bubble pops. No need to add WSU/OSU now.
The Big 12 will turn into the #3 league full of schools that all will go to the B1G or SEC if they call, but those leagues will have such an enormous $$$ advantage that they won’t be calling. Far more likely that a Northwestern or Mississippi State is one day trying to join our ranks rather than Oklahoma State or Utah getting a call to go to the SEC/B1G.
I know nothing about OSU, so I can’t comment on them. I get what you’re saying and I don’t want to quibble too much, but fan base support is more than simply attendance at events. We’ve certainly had lean years when the team lacked the current success. Their football stadium only holds ~35K. Also, geographically, WSU is at an extreme disadvantage when it comes to attendance. Having been there, the campus is nice and the fans are as rabid about their team as we are about ours. If you recall, it was quite the competition as to which fan base was going to drink more when we played them in the bowl game. They are generally a fun group of fans. I know it has to be this way on some level, but I hate to see them reduced to their attendance or TV numbers, because I know first hand it’s more than that.
Totally agree. Make those two start off in the MWC. If they become a problem, promote them.
There are only two ways the Big screws this up.
1.) we have members caught in the lust for nostalgia, thinking going to the Pac12 means anything more than being in a CA-less west coast based conference that has been in decay WITH CA. the Pac12 as we knew it is dead, and frankly died many years ago. It would be a one-step move and criminally bad.
2.) full merger when we don't need to. If the Big 12 is unified, we can take the Mountain 4, and if UW and Oregon are later available, them too.
And now they also hate the loss of identity that would come with joining. It will still be ND, but it would also be another BIG rust belt school. Which is why Stanford/USC were wise moves by Warren. If ND joins, they want to be as little BIG as possible.
A lot of that hatred goes waaaay back to the old days when a lot of the Big 10 teams didn't want to play "them Catholics." Many of the old school Big 10 coaches were a bit bigoted towards ND.
Also, ND refuses to share any research dollars with schools that do stem cell research. The Big 10 schools love sharing their research money.
For all you realignment Junkies, this book is awesome. They do go into good detail on why ND has historically not liked the Big 10:
Amazon.com: The Fifty-Year Seduction: How Television Manipulated College Football, from the Birth of the Modern NCAA to the Creation of the BCS: 9780312323455: Dunnavant, Keith: Books
Amazon.com: The Fifty-Year Seduction: How Television Manipulated College Football, from the Birth of the Modern NCAA to the Creation of the BCS: 9780312323455: Dunnavant, Keith: Books
www.amazon.com
Hopefully it was more than that, lol. Was thinking it was all due to potential since they have a larger student body and a nice location.
Well, michigan tried to destroy them by wanting to start a boycott of teams playing ND. Past Ohio State president says you can't trust catholics, there is just a couple things. One long ago and one not that long ago.
Those coaches may have been molested, by priests, as youngsters.
Too soon?
Whether Oregon goes to the Big 10 or not, a merger is probably never going to make sense vs. picking off the best remaining 4-6, or whatever it takes to get critical mass to potentially open up some new possibilities with Apple or similar.
I'm not saying there might not be scenarios where inclusion of some of these schools makes sense, but it's important to understand that OSU, WSU, Cal, CU, UA, Stanford are basically like bringing in another KU football program in terms of viewership. It's likely the inclusion of any of these would hurt the per school media value. These are very bad TV products.
However, in addition to the media opportunities, the critical mass argument can be made to ensure playoff inclusion.
In my opinion, UW, Utah and ASU are takes, no questions asked. Then for the playoff inclusion efforts, you take CU and probably UA as well.
If Oregon goes to the Big 10, then the Big 12 is in the driver's seat. If the Big 12 wants to offer a lower share for initial years, I think they can try to work that for some of the schools.
If ND joins the ACC, then I don't think their bubble pops. They are arrogant as a whole conference. ESPN would keep them alive with $$ to spite FOX. I'm starting to think we end up with 4 conferences and the ACC comes out alive too.
I think the best reasonable case is Oregon bolts for the Big 10, and the Big 10 says to UW they aren't going to expand at this time. Then the Big 12 could lock UW up w/ the new deal and GoR.
I think Oregon is a pipe dream for the Big 12.
The Centennial Celebration You Don’t Know About // UHND.com
On November 23, 1887, there were 38 states.
www.uhnd.com
The Fielding Yost years, from about 1909 to the 1930’s. He was the reason the conference denied membership to ND three times and he tried to get other teams not to play them. He is the reason they adopted a national schedule and started playing USC and Stanford. He was there in an era when ND students had to fight off an attack on campus by the KKK.
Big 12
"The Big 12 is the most stable of the three remaining leagues. That would have been considered a punchline for much of the past two decades, when the league endured so much infighting that it became the archetype of instability.But here's the reality for the Big 12: The league is the most stable among the "Next Three" because there are no programs that are clearly coveted by the Big Ten or SEC.
When Texas and Oklahoma announced they were leaving last year, the remaining eight Big 12 members essentially put themselves on the open market. No one stopped to pick them up. That gave them solidarity by reality, which has birthed a stable union that blossomed by adding UCF, BYU, Cincinnati and Houston.
"We're more galvanized than we've ever been," a league source said. "There's no interest by Big 12 members going to the Pac-12 or ACC."
It's been quite a first week for new commissioner Brett Yormark, who has impressed the league's athletic directors and leaders with his humility and willingness to admit he knows what he doesn't know.
Yormark has been aggressive, per sources. The most logical play for the Big 12 remains going after Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah. In a realignment landscape that often doesn't make sense, those four schools would fit both competitively and geographically. All four would have realistic ambition to win the Big 12 while putting rivals Utah and BYU in the same league.
For those four schools, hitching their futures to Oregon and Washington in some sort of rearranged Pac-12 would likely be a short-term relationship, as it's probable the Ducks and Huskies will be looking across the financial moat over to the Big Ten. Even, perhaps, at a discounted rate.
If Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah go to the Big 12, it would essentially kill the Pac-12. Would Washington and Oregon end up following? The Pac-12 would be largely vacant, and they'd need a home better than a juiced-up Mountain West.
The Big 12's advantage over the ACC in potentially poaching schools is that they are headed to open market after the 2024 football season.
The ACC can reopen its TV deal if schools are added, but there's unlikely to be an eye-popping increase in the value of that ACC contract.
The Big 12 can pitch potential schools on the allure of a lucrative deal that could potentially involve streamers, networks and perhaps new linear partners.
A full-on merger/alliance-type move with the Pac-12 would be complicated for many reasons, including existing television deals. There's also too many mouths to feed to get a blockbuster deal. The Pac-12 TV deal expiring in 2023 makes the league an easy target."
Adding AZ, ASU, UT, and CO kills the Pac-12. It also gives you 16 teams, equal to the Big 10 and SEC (2024-2025 timeline).
17-18 priorities are Oregon and Washington. But if they go to the B1G. I'd be cool with sitting and waiting for the ACC to explode and raiding teams like UVA, VaTech, Miami, NCST, Duke, etc.
Imagine a basketball conference with KU, Duke, and Arizona....
17-18 priorities are Oregon and Washington. But if they go to the B1G. I'd be cool with sitting and waiting for the ACC to explode and raiding teams like UVA, VaTech, Miami, NCST, Duke, etc.
Imagine a basketball conference with KU, Duke, and Arizona....