Phog Allen can bite me

[VeloClone]

So you go back 4 more years and accumulate a record of 5-11 over the last 16. Again, why should this show KU fans that Hilton is "magical"? A 69% KU win rate in Hilton. Like I said, I am not denigrating ISU here because I LOVE Hilton, but come on, why should we get upset or expect KU fans to talk about Hilton like it is an impossible place to win when they win here 70% of the time or whatever?

Frankly, I don't think we should expect it. I was simply calling into question your choice of stats to back up your argument.

1. You chose to go back just far enough to include a 29 point loss but leave out a close loss and 3 consecutive wins.
2. You decided to introduce close losses vs. 10+ point losses as a way of evaluating ISU's home success against KU.
3. You claimed that you would have to go back 30 years to show any success in the series.

I simply pointed out the error of your rationale. Frankly, if I was KU, I wouldn't be afraid of Hilton Magic either. On the other hand, I would recognize that despite my team's success there it is generally the least success my team has had on any opponent's floor in the conference since the conference's inception.

 

[76Jayhawk]

The thing that got me was the complete unawareness of anything not directly involving KU that happened in the conference for the past 4 years. Never mind that nobody else is beating us at Hilton, the homecourt advantage must not be real because KU has had our number the past couple years.

If by last couple of years you mean since the beginning of time you are correct. KU is 67-37 @ ISU all time. They are 11-2 in the last 13 trips there.

Shocking that KU fans dont see the "Magic". Of course, Hilton is a great venue, you guys have passionate fans, and the atmosphere is superb. But none of that translates to Magic when it comes to KU.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Good grief, just for boredom's sake, I checked out phog.net. Well that was a mistake, there is a thread there crapping on Hilton as if it threatens KU's existence. Note to stupid KU fans: Teams other than KU actually have difficult home arenas, even in the Big12. You are not the only one. You have been fortunate to win at Hilton more often than others, which I expect to end this season.

Kansas fans are elitist douches. There was a thread yesterday about who ISU's biggest rival is... It's Kansas when it comes to basketball. Sure Kansas has won the majority of the recent games but who do Kansas fans feel threatens the Jayhawks title aspirations the most? Who do Kansas fans hate the most? Do Kansas fans have threads about the Erwin Center, the Lloyd Noble Center, Gallagher Iba, the Octagon of Dumb? No they don't.

Look... ISU is a media darling. Hoiberg is the golden boy of college basketball. He is younger then most, he is a good looking guy, he has swagger, he developed a ridiculously exciting brand of basketball in Hoiball, his story of going from an ISU ball boy, to Ames High star, to ISU All-American, to the NBA, to ISU head coach is unmatched by any other coaches story in the NCAA today. ISU has likable kids playing on the team, class act kids like Georges Niang (who is universally loved by virtually every media member that covers college hoops), Monte Morris (who is universally loved by virtually every media member that covers college hoops), Naz Long, former guys like Melvin Ejim, Scottie C, and DeAndre Kane (who had a horrible reputation but wound up being a highly regarded and well respected player). ISU has some of the best fan support in all of college basketball and that is a big reason why "Hilton Magic" has become a nationally recognized label for the home court advantage that the Cyclones enjoy.

It's no surprise that Kansas fans and their players hate ISU... we've been stealing their thunder more and more each year under Hoiberg.

 

[twocoach]

Frankly, I don't think we should expect it. I was simply calling into question your choice of stats to back up your argument. 1. You chose to go back just far enough to include a 29 point loss but leave out a close loss and 3 consecutive wins. 2. You decided to introduce close losses vs. 10+ point losses as a way of evaluating ISU's home success against KU. 3. You claimed that you would have to go back 30 years to show any success in the series. I simply pointed out the error of your rationale. Frankly, if I was KU, I wouldn't be afraid of Hilton Magic either. On the other hand, I would recognize that despite my team's success there it is generally the least success my team has had on any opponent's floor in the conference since the conference's inception.

KU fans don't care about any road venue or the effect it may have on the game, it's that simple. Virtually every road game KU plays is to packed houses and raucus fans. I think every Big 12 opponent now has special ticketing policies or procedures that involve their home game against KU because it is always the most attended game for that team. What we do worry about is the TEAM that we are going on the road to play. If KU loses @ISU it will be because they didn't play well enough to win, not because they got freaked out by how loud it is. That's no slight to ISU, their arena or their loud fans. KU plays in front of crazy loud every night. My ears hurt for more than a week after the KU vs Florida game. It's not arrogance by KU fans that they aren't worried about playing @Hilton. It's just the reality of our perspective, which is different than those of the other fan bases in the Big 12.

 

[twocoach]

Kansas fans are elitist douches. There was a thread yesterday about who ISU's biggest rival is... It's Kansas when it comes to basketball. Sure Kansas has won the majority of the recent games but who do Kansas fans feel threatens the Jayhawks title aspirations the most? Who do Kansas fans hate the most? Do Kansas fans have threads about the Erwin Center, the Lloyd Noble Center, Gallagher Iba, the Octagon of Dumb? No they don't. Look... ISU is a media darling. Hoiberg is the golden boy of college basketball. He is younger then most, he is a good looking guy, he has swagger, he developed a ridiculously exciting brand of basketball in Hoiball, his story of going from an ISU ball boy, to Ames High star, to ISU All-American, to the NBA, to ISU head coach is unmatched by any other coaches story in the NCAA today. ISU has likable kids playing on the team, class act kids like Georges Niang (who is universally loved by virtually every media member that covers college hoops), Monte Morris (who is universally loved by virtually every media member that covers college hoops), Naz Long, former guys like Melvin Ejim, Scottie C, and DeAndre Kane (who had a horrible reputation but wound up being a highly regarded and well respected player). ISU has some of the best fan support in all of college basketball and that is a big reason why "Hilton Magic" has become a nationally recognized label for the home court advantage that the Cyclones enjoy. It's no surprise that Kansas fans and their players hate ISU... we've been stealing their thunder more and more each year under Hoiberg.

I don't know any KU fans that hate ISU, their fans or their players. I know lots of ISU fans that hate KU, their fans and their players.

 

[Cyclonesince78]

Kansas fans are elitist douches. There was a thread yesterday about who ISU's biggest rival is... It's Kansas when it comes to basketball. Sure Kansas has won the majority of the recent games but who do Kansas fans feel threatens the Jayhawks title aspirations the most? Who do Kansas fans hate the most? Do Kansas fans have threads about the Erwin Center, the Lloyd Noble Center, Gallagher Iba, the Octagon of Dumb? No they don't.

Look... ISU is a media darling. Hoiberg is the golden boy of college basketball. He is younger then most, he is a good looking guy, he has swagger, he developed a ridiculously exciting brand of basketball in Hoiball, his story of going from an ISU ball boy, to Ames High star, to ISU All-American, to the NBA, to ISU head coach is unmatched by any other coaches story in the NCAA today. ISU has likable kids playing on the team, class act kids like Georges Niang (who is universally loved by virtually every media member that covers college hoops), Monte Morris (who is universally loved by virtually every media member that covers college hoops), Naz Long, former guys like Melvin Ejim, Scottie C, and DeAndre Kane (who had a horrible reputation but wound up being a highly regarded and well respected player). ISU has some of the best fan support in all of college basketball and that is a big reason why "Hilton Magic" has become a nationally recognized label for the home court advantage that the Cyclones enjoy.

It's no surprise that Kansas fans and their players hate ISU... we've been stealing their thunder more and more each year under Hoiberg.

KU doesn't really have a rival right now. As an ISU fan KU is our rival, and would love to eventually be KU's rival and for them to see it that way too. Could easily develop if Hoiberg is here for a while.

 

[VeloClone]

Tuco, it would be futile to disagree with anything you said. I will just say that Hilton Magic is sometimes about how the environment affects the visiting team but just as often or maybe more often how it affects the home team. So many times Johnny's teams that had no business sticking with ranked opponents would find that extra gear to give them all they wanted and often beat them. So many times ISU teams start to struggle for a few possessions in a row and the crowd doesn't wait for the team to get the crowd into the game, the crowd gets loud to get the team back into the game.

But like I said, if I played for KU, I wouldn't be afraid of Hilton Magic. I would respect it, though.

 

[trajanJ]

I went on that thread and it seems to be about 50/50. Half the posts are ripping ISU and the other half respect ISU. KU fans could come over here and say ISU fans just complain about the refs all the time, but when you actually read the posts you see a lot of them are complaining about the people complaining.

One thing KU and ISU have in common is they are probably the best basketball fans in the conference and know more about the sport than the average fan. There will always be the fans that go overboard, especially on places like here and phog.

 

[Gossamer]

 

[Gossamer]

^^^as if KU fans aren't annoying...both in their arena and in the general public.

 

[twocoach]

Tuco, it would be futile to disagree with anything you said. I will just say that Hilton Magic is sometimes about how the environment affects the visiting team but just as often or maybe more often how it affects the home team. So many times Johnny's teams that had no business sticking with ranked opponents would find that extra gear to give them all they wanted and often beat them. So many times ISU teams start to struggle for a few possessions in a row and the crowd doesn't wait for the team to get the crowd into the game, the crowd gets loud to get the team back into the game. But like I said, if I played for KU, I wouldn't be afraid of Hilton Magic. I would respect it, though.

KU fans have a pretty good idea of what a raucous crowd does to rev up the home team; I don't need it explained it to me. If ISU players get revved up by the atmosphere and play lights out and KU can't respond then hats off to ISU. Like every road game KU plays, they will need to play good enough on the defensive end to make it as hard for ISU to score as possible. I am not worried about Hilton Magic, I am worried about how KU will perform. If they can play well despite the tough opponent and the tough atmosphere then it's a good day. If not, bummer for that and on to the next game. Tough to win on the road in ANY environment. KU won't win all their road games and they don't need to. Just need to get as many as possible.

 

[VeloClone]

KU fans have a pretty good idea of what a raucous crowd does to rev up the home team; I don't need it explained it to me.

Nothing about my post was condescending; I'm not sure why you would take it that way. Your post simply talked about a loud environment not affecting your team. You seemed to miss the other side of the equation. That is the only reason I put that in there.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I laugh when Kansas fans bring up booing. Watch a Kansas game and listen to their fans boo like it is going out of style. It's amazingly hypocritical. It's no surprise though... KU fans think their **** doesn't stink.

 

[storycy]

Frankly, I don't think we should expect it. I was simply calling into question your choice of stats to back up your argument.

1. You chose to go back just far enough to include a 29 point loss but leave out a close loss and 3 consecutive wins.
2. You decided to introduce close losses vs. 10+ point losses as a way of evaluating ISU's home success against KU.
3. You claimed that you would have to go back 30 years to show any success in the series.

I simply pointed out the error of your rationale. Frankly, if I was KU, I wouldn't be afraid of Hilton Magic either. On the other hand, I would recognize that despite my team's success there it is generally the least success my team has had on any opponent's floor in the conference since the conference's inception.

Actually, it wasn't me deciding to include or exclude anything, it was me using the past schedules at CycloneReport to find past results and the past schedules only went back as far as I went back. I could have only gone back 10 years if I wanted to stop at a handy number, but it would not have changed the overall concept and neither does adding in the four years you added. Fact is, Kansas has been immune to most of the Magic at Hilton.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Nothing about my post was condescending; I'm not sure why you would take it that way. Your post simply talked about a loud environment not affecting your team. You seemed to miss the other side of the equation. That is the only reason I put that in there.

Tuco is just being a typical douchenozzle. He's a KU fan... it's the only thing they know how to do.

 

[twocoach]

Nothing about my post was condescending; I'm not sure why you would take it that way. Your post simply talked about a loud environment not affecting your team. You seemed to miss the other side of the equation. That is the only reason I put that in there.

I didn't miss it; it just has nothing to do with whether or not I am concerned about "Hilton Magic" so I didn't mention it. I assume that players get excited playing at home in front of their excited crowd. Like I said, that's every road game that KU plays. I agree with you that ISU plays very well at home and it will be tough for KU to go in there and win a game. Even when KU has won there lately, they have been mostly hard fought battles down to the wire. But bottom line, the better that ISU's players get, the tougher it is to win there so I am more concerned with their players than the atmosphere. What makes Hilton Magic special in the conference isn't that they get really loud. Lots of places get really loud. It's that they get really loud for every game, not just when Kansas comes to town. Everyone gets loud when Kansas comes to town.

 

[HFCS]

KU doesn't really have a rival right now. As an ISU fan KU is our rival, and would love to eventually be KU's rival and for them to see it that way too. Could easily develop if Hoiberg is here for a while.

We used to not even get KU trolls on our boards if we beat them. Now we get those trolls even when they are 4-1 against us the past few years. It's heading that direction.

KU is as ticked at ISU as they have been since '01. If we keep it going it'll happen. For whatever reason Kansas State can't give them a game even when Kansas State has a pretty good team. It almost reminds me of ISU/Iowa wrestling where our team doesn't challenge Iowa even when we're ranked pretty close.

 

[VeloClone]

Tuco don't be like that. Sure fan bases are excited to play KU, but I watched that Baylor game. Those generously counted 7,000 fans really brought it.