Phillip Bates is back?!?!

[TedKumsher]

Not really true. It's air speed over the wings that creates lift. Jet engines produce thrust which propels the plane along the ground until such time as sufficient air speed creates enough lift to take off. If the treadmill negates any ground speed, then there will not be enough air speed to create enough lift.

Different story for small (ultralight) planes. The interesting question would be about small prop planes. I don't think the prop is large enough to create enough air movement over the wings to create enough lift without ground speed. It's not like helicopter sized props -- which literally move enough air by themselves to generate lift.

I started (for the first time) to read the other thread. It's amazing how many demonstratably incorrect things people were saying.

So let me apologize. The statements I made were specific to the case where the treadmill is capable of maintaining 0 ground speed. I believe that is the spirit of the question (it would have been clearer to say that the airplane is not allowed to move forward relative to the ground -- perhaps by blocking the wheels).

 

[jdoggivjc]

I started (for the first time) to read the other thread. It's amazing how many demonstratably incorrect things people were saying.

So let me apologize. The statements I made were specific to the case where the treadmill is capable of maintaining 0 ground speed. I believe that is the spirit of the question (it would have been clearer to say that the airplane is not allowed to move forward relative to the ground -- perhaps by blocking the wheels).

As long as the wheels are allowed to freely spin that plane is going to take off from the treadmill (freakin' A, I can't believe I'm getting sucked back into this argument).

 

[ISUAlum2002]

Not really true. It's air speed over the wings that creates lift. Jet engines produce thrust which propels the plane along the ground until such time as sufficient air speed creates enough lift to take off. If the treadmill negates any ground speed, then there will not be enough air speed to create enough lift.

Yes, like I said, when the plane moves forward, the wings create lift.

Sorry that I didn't throw in the fact that there would be air moving over the wings to create the lift, I assumed that most readers here would understand that.

The treadmill would not negate the ground speed as the thrust would be more than enough to overcome the friction of the wheel bearings of the landing gear.

Edit: I see your addendum post now.

 

[RyCy04]

I have just been skimming the posts here without really reading them. So is Phillip Bates coming back to ISU to become a pilot?

 

[ISUAlum2002]

I have just been skimming the posts here without really reading them. So is Phillip Bates coming back to ISU to become a pilot?

He came back to help solve the "plane on a treadmill" theory.

 

[cmoneyr]

Memories, like the corner of my mind.

Oh, and the plane takes off, physics FTW!