OT: Making A Murderer on Netflix
- Thread starter dahliaclone
- Start date
Given how things played out in this case in the court, if I were on the jury I am not saying Steven and Brendan would be innocent, but there is NO WAY I would vote guilty. There would be way too much reasonable doubt that he/they might have done it but nothing that would 100% make me say he/they absolutely did.
I cannot believe the first vote from the jury was 7 not guilty, three unsure and two guilty and it ended up all guilty. Unbelievable.
Actually, I just realized I read about this case before. It didn't go into detail, it was only a chapter. Some self help book.
It told it from Penny Bernstein's perspective and the guilt she felt from her wrong testimony essentially ruining a decent man by going to prison and thus causing the murder.
Anyway, unrelated, just an epiphany. Wish I could remember the book.
It told it from Penny Bernstein's perspective and the guilt she felt from her wrong testimony essentially ruining a decent man by going to prison and thus causing the murder.
Anyway, unrelated, just an epiphany. Wish I could remember the book.
The problem is that evidence doesn't back the state's story up. No evidence in the bedroom of a really messy murder. Nothing in the garage. Not only was there nothing in the garage, it hadn't been scrubbed as they found other DNA. So you mean to tell me that story is plausible when a ladies was stabbed, had her throat slit and was shot. This same guy who was smart enough to get all of that cleaned up also had the remains at his house and parked the vehicle in his salvage yard. So, let's just say we throw all of that story out because there is no physical proof it happened. Then what do we have? He was the last one to see her. The key was found in his room. His blood was in the vehicle. The last one to see her bit isn't anything other that an investigatory piece. Someone got into her phone messages and got rid of something. How do you miss a key through 3-4 searches? Why was that vile of blood opened up? Is it really a stretch to think this police department may have been out to get him? I don't really put that in the conspiracy theory category. It's awful hard to say they proved the given story without reasonable doubt.
This is all not to mention the motive that the sherif's department had.
Come on man. Episode 4 is brutal what they do to him. They are there accusing him that he did it while writing his statement (even asked him to draw specific pictures which is not acceptable), and bullied him into his verbal statement to begin with. I felt terrible for him as he doesn't have the capacity to understand the situation.
"What happened to her head?"
"He cut her hair off"
"What else happened to her head?"
"Who shot her in the head Brendan?"
"He did"
Sound like a legit admittance?
They didn't even use Brendan against Steven so his story is irrelevant in the case.
"He cut her hair off"
"What else happened to her head?"
"Who shot her in the head Brendan?"
"He did"
Sound like a legit admittance?
They didn't even use Brendan against Steven so his story is irrelevant in the case.
Brendan is only in jail for being dumb, absolutely no evidence besides his forced confessions. Can't believe his first lawyer and investigator.
Something about Theresa's brother just rubbed me the wrong way. I don't think he did it, but he automatically jumps to the conclusion that she is dead the first time he is interviewed on the news and he just seemed to like being in front of the reporters to much for the situation to me.
He acted like Avery did it from the time his name came up and even with the unclear evidence/questions with the investigation proceedings never wavered from having no doubt that Avery was involved almost as if just wanting the case to be closed as soon as possible.
The makers of the series really seemed to focus on him though so that could be why he in particular made me feel uneasy.
I think that Lenk somehow got word that she was going to be at Avery's place that day and he hired a hitman to kill her, and then he planted all of the evidence.
This is the reddit post that makes the most sense to me.
I think that police tampering and clumsy efforts by the real killer caused Steven to be charged. My favorite suspects are Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych, but you could easily substitute any of the capable men living on the Avery property to fit my theory of the crime.
After entering her car to leave the Avery property, Theresa is stopped by Bobby and Scott as she tries to exit the scrapyard. She is forced at gunpoint to drive to a secluded area. There she is raped and shot in the head. Her body is loaded into the back of the Rav4 and transported to a corner of the scrapyard. The vehicle is hidden here.
Bobby and Scott retrieve a burn barrel and place the body within. They would not have to mutilate the corpse to fit her small frame inside a large barrel. They transport the barrel to the quarry. The body is burned there and the flames remain out of site from passers-by.
The next day, Bobby and/or Scott retrieve the barrel and dump the ashes in the Avery burn pit. At this point they probably are in possession of the Rav4 key by reflexively removing it from the ignition after dumping the Rav4. At this point, neither Bobby nor Scott are actively trying to frame Steven. They are simply covering the crime and disposing of evidence.
After Theresa has been reported missing, Officer Colburn finds the Rav4 on the Avery lot during an illegal search. He uses this opportunity to retrieve Steven Avery's blood from evidence and plant it at the scene. He then suggests to search party leaders that this area is of interest and instructs them not to touch anything if they find the car.
Once the Rav4 has been located by the search party, the area is a crime scene. Officers inform many members of the Avery and Dassey families that Steven is their #1 suspect. Bobby and Scott use this opportunity to further frame Steven by placing the key in his trailer several days into the investigation. They have full knowledge of DNA evidence, since it exonerated Steven once before, so they are careful to clean the key thoroughly.
During the investigation, officers find lots of junk in Steven's trailer, including evidence of his business interaction with Theresa. They also find restraints. Believing Steven to be a deviant, they begin to form a narrative based on rumors of Steven's past and the random items collected in his trailer. This narrative includes restraining and raping Theresa. Note that no physical evidence links Theresa to deviant sexual acts, only the imagination of investigators.
Later in the investigation, human remains are found in the fire pit and the cause of death is determined. Also, Rav4 keys are found in Steven's trailer. At this point, investigators are convinced Steven is guilty, so they attempt to discredit Steven's only alibi witness: Brenden Dassey.
Brenden is a simpleton, but investigators misconstrue his demeanor as consciousness of guilt. They coerce a statement from him that fits the narrative investigators have imagined: A brutal sexual assault followed by an execution. They immediately look for the physical evidence that should be abundant from such a crime.
Investigators find a bullet fragment in the garage of Steven Avery. This fragment lacks Theresa's DNA, but poor handling practices in the forensics lab return a positive result for Theresa's DNA. The technician bends the rules to allow the analysis to stick, believing that the other evidence against Steven is damning enough and the DNA is just another drop in the bucket.
From here, the State has sufficient physical evidence to charge Steven. Constant press conferences from the special prosecutor ensure that the public has a clear narrative to the horrific crime, even if that narrative is only supported by the imagination of investigators and not the physical evidence. The jurors of the trial are familiar with this narrative and attempt to fit the State's evidence to the story they were presented during the news cycle. The State does not present evidence during the trial of sexual assault and imprisonment. None-the-less, the jurors are very aware of the allegations. The defense is unable to adequately refute these rumors because they were not presented at trial.
Steven is found guilty through a combination of inappropriate press releases, popular local animus against the Avery family, and just enough physical evidence to keep the jurors from doubting their verdict.
I think that police tampering and clumsy efforts by the real killer caused Steven to be charged. My favorite suspects are Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych, but you could easily substitute any of the capable men living on the Avery property to fit my theory of the crime.
After entering her car to leave the Avery property, Theresa is stopped by Bobby and Scott as she tries to exit the scrapyard. She is forced at gunpoint to drive to a secluded area. There she is raped and shot in the head. Her body is loaded into the back of the Rav4 and transported to a corner of the scrapyard. The vehicle is hidden here.
Bobby and Scott retrieve a burn barrel and place the body within. They would not have to mutilate the corpse to fit her small frame inside a large barrel. They transport the barrel to the quarry. The body is burned there and the flames remain out of site from passers-by.
The next day, Bobby and/or Scott retrieve the barrel and dump the ashes in the Avery burn pit. At this point they probably are in possession of the Rav4 key by reflexively removing it from the ignition after dumping the Rav4. At this point, neither Bobby nor Scott are actively trying to frame Steven. They are simply covering the crime and disposing of evidence.
After Theresa has been reported missing, Officer Colburn finds the Rav4 on the Avery lot during an illegal search. He uses this opportunity to retrieve Steven Avery's blood from evidence and plant it at the scene. He then suggests to search party leaders that this area is of interest and instructs them not to touch anything if they find the car.
Once the Rav4 has been located by the search party, the area is a crime scene. Officers inform many members of the Avery and Dassey families that Steven is their #1 suspect. Bobby and Scott use this opportunity to further frame Steven by placing the key in his trailer several days into the investigation. They have full knowledge of DNA evidence, since it exonerated Steven once before, so they are careful to clean the key thoroughly.
During the investigation, officers find lots of junk in Steven's trailer, including evidence of his business interaction with Theresa. They also find restraints. Believing Steven to be a deviant, they begin to form a narrative based on rumors of Steven's past and the random items collected in his trailer. This narrative includes restraining and raping Theresa. Note that no physical evidence links Theresa to deviant sexual acts, only the imagination of investigators.
Later in the investigation, human remains are found in the fire pit and the cause of death is determined. Also, Rav4 keys are found in Steven's trailer. At this point, investigators are convinced Steven is guilty, so they attempt to discredit Steven's only alibi witness: Brenden Dassey.
Brenden is a simpleton, but investigators misconstrue his demeanor as consciousness of guilt. They coerce a statement from him that fits the narrative investigators have imagined: A brutal sexual assault followed by an execution. They immediately look for the physical evidence that should be abundant from such a crime.
Investigators find a bullet fragment in the garage of Steven Avery. This fragment lacks Theresa's DNA, but poor handling practices in the forensics lab return a positive result for Theresa's DNA. The technician bends the rules to allow the analysis to stick, believing that the other evidence against Steven is damning enough and the DNA is just another drop in the bucket.
From here, the State has sufficient physical evidence to charge Steven. Constant press conferences from the special prosecutor ensure that the public has a clear narrative to the horrific crime, even if that narrative is only supported by the imagination of investigators and not the physical evidence. The jurors of the trial are familiar with this narrative and attempt to fit the State's evidence to the story they were presented during the news cycle. The State does not present evidence during the trial of sexual assault and imprisonment. None-the-less, the jurors are very aware of the allegations. The defense is unable to adequately refute these rumors because they were not presented at trial.
Steven is found guilty through a combination of inappropriate press releases, popular local animus against the Avery family, and just enough physical evidence to keep the jurors from doubting their verdict.
There's no way I could have found him guilty of that murder. None of it made any logical sense whatsoever. If Steven killed her, the last place he'd ditch the vehicle would be in his own salvage yard. And if he did, why didn't he crush the car with the car crusher?
Then, why would you burn the body about 10 feet from your trailer and leave the bones there? Not even Steven would be that dumb. And why would a bunch of her blood and hair be in the back of her RAV 4 anyway if she was killed in his trailer, shot in the garage, and burned in the backyard? There would have been no reason for her body to ever be in her car.
And the Brendan conviction is even more absurd IMO. How any of that confession could have been permitted in a court of law is beyond me. He was totally coerced into saying what they wanted him to say. They basically told him that if he ever wanted to go home again that he better say what they wanted to hear. And Brendan even admitted that he just wanted to be home in time to see WrestleMania. The kid is mentally handicapped.
The biggest joke possibly of the whole thing was the investigator telling Brendan exactly what pictures to draw and what to write in his confession. How was all the stuff not just thrown out? Any halfway capable judge would throw all that out, correct?
I'll bet this show brings a whole sh$t storm on this police department and the judicial system in Wisconsin, as it should. This was a travesty of justice. I would think there will be people marching in the streets over this. Should be interesting to see. What a great job by whoever decided to make this movie.
Obviously nothing was going through his head. His IQ was 70. That's the problem!
Don't get me wrong, I felt terrible for him too. And you're right. It's just hard for people of normal intelligence to understand why he can't just say "I didn't do ****" and stick to that. It's just frustrating to watch because of both the investigators and Brendan's responses. And Brendan's first attorney is a piece of **** for what he did too.
I don't think the police went as far as actually killing her, but I do think it's possible that they planted the key and the blood..especially with how the tape was on the blood package and the needle hole in the top of it.
The key really makes no sense since they had searched several times before and didn't see it. There was no dna from the victim on the key, just the accused. No one is going to be smart enough to clean up all of the dna from an alleged rape and throat slashing and then be dumb enough to leave the key in plain sight.
The ex-boyfriend and her brother are SUPER shady. The whole 'we guessed her phone password' and deleted messages part I was like 'WHAT THE BLUE **** FOR?!' That was so strange to me.
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Why would the killer put the car key in his own bedroom? None of this stuff makes any logical sense whatsoever.
Not only do I think the police planted this stuff, they did a poor job of it too because none of it makes logical sense as to how a killer would react in this situation. It was almost too obvious that the police planted evidence IMO.
I also don't think the body was burned there. Do you know how high the temp has to be to burn a body to the point hers was? Incredibly high. Way higher than a burn barrel would do.
This x1000. Something seemed off about the ex-boyfriend for sure. Sending the two ladies into the salvage yard with a camera like he knew they would find something? Seemed strange.