NOW OFFICIAL: Colvin to transfer

[dbronco7sc]

How many wins do you think ISU would have if the non-con schedule wasn't padded with slack teams year after year?

ISU is a member of the Big 12, and the basketball program is judged relative to ISU's Big 12 peers. How close to a 0.500 Big 12 winning % has ISU been over the past 4 years?

If those 15 wins meant a hill of beans, ISU would be in some kind of post season play. The fact that ISU hasn't been to post season play indicates that 15 wins is not an accomplishment for a Big 12 school.

Joining the discussion late is never a good idea unless you decide to read each of the preceding arguments. To summarize what happened:

Somebody wrote that ISU has just had one of the worst 4 year streches in the history of college basketball. I provided simple math logic to show why this is a massive over exaggeration. I would not have posted my response if this guy had stated in the history of "BCS college basketball" or "Big 12 college basketball" (which we weren't even last place in the big 12... so... still kinda an over exaggeration).

I did not say we were doing 'good'. I said that we are not among the worst in the history of college basketball.

Please make an effort to be up to speed on the argument before slamming the other side.

That said... we did not necessarily have a 'cake' non-conference schedule this year as most everybody on here considered it to be quite strong going into the season with Duke, Cal, ND/NW, UNI, St. Louis, Houston... and I'm sure I'm missing one more. As for the other weak teams... every school has some extremely weak teams on the schedule.

All in all... those 'cake' teams are the type of teams I'd consider to be 'worse than us' which is clear by their worse records than us when they have much easier conferences that they play in. So, if you can provide any statistical evidence to argue my claim that we aren't a team who has just had one of the "worst 4 year stretches in college basketball history" let alone not even history but just this most recent 4 year stretch... I will be very impressed.

 

[Stormin]

Worst stretch of basketball in ISU history? The Ken Trickey Era. No doubt about it. We won 3 games one year I think. Next came Lynn Nance. An assistant at Kentucky. ISU was so-so during his run but nothing great. And then came Johnny Orr.

You guys have no idea how woefully bad we were during the Ken Trickey Era.

 

[907CY]

Hey Colvin, don't let the door hit you in the ***. You should have been off the team when you walked out on your teammates during a meeting. So, now you say the Mac's system doesn't fit your style. I think it is more that since you weren't the star that you think you are that you couldn't take it. I hope your next coach has the pablum and diapers ready because he will need them with a weak kneed cry baby like you. Oliver is going to be play rings around your poor 3 ppg average and probably won't cry about it either. Your bogus excuse for leaving shows that you haven't matured enough to deserve to be a Cyclone. Good luck and don't cry when you and the rest of the world are told that you aren't NBA material. Too slow and too short... with no backbone. Good day, mate...

 

[xr4ticlone]

I'm telling you, believe it or not...JP has more information than the people on this site.

Between this and the 'cash has nothing to do with it' comment I would suggest some things....

Regardless of if you realize it or not...you're just irritating people with these posts...I understand that you have an attachment to the program and Greg...but for crying out loud man! You're not helping at all. Reading your posts makes me either want to send a big check for his buyout or start a "Fire JP" web site if he is really that confused about the MASSIVE LEVEL OF SUCK we have in MBB right now.

What more can there be to know?

We have four years of SOLD, NON STOP, SUCK and it's in black and white, stone cold, hard FACTS.

We have MASSIVE player attrition. Good players, bad players, roll players, black players, white players, short players, tall players...there doesn't seem to be a demographic of MBB player that doesn't either hate Greg or playing for him. Maybe we should give Hispanics, gays, and Asian players a shot...we don't know they'll hate playing at ISU for Greg...yet.

I guess you think its cute...and maybe Mac does to...but the road we are on isn't going to be pretty. The fans that don't quit watching are going to be ******...and this obviously isn't doing Mac's career any good. What program in its right mind is going to hire a coach that not only failed but continued on "Chernobaling" the program long after it was obvious he'd failed?

For JP's sake I hope this IS about money...anything else would be unacceptable.

 

[907CY]

Worst stretch of basketball in ISU history? The Ken Trickey Era. No doubt about it. We won 3 games one year I think. Next came Lynn Nance. An assistant at Kentucky. ISU was so-so during his run but nothing great. And then came Johnny Orr.

You guys have no idea how woefully bad we were during the Ken Trickey Era.

Oh, those Trickey teams were brutal. At some point I felt that we probably could not have beaten some high school teams. Thanks for bringing up some very painful memories. Didn't Michigan fire Johnny Orr because they thought he was the worse coach they ever had? The last four years have been golden compared to the Trickey era. As far as cupcake schedules goes... we had them during the Trickey tenure and we lost to a good share of those very weak teams. The Cyclones were considered the cupcakes then. Mac's teams aren't good but there not the worse either.

 

[xr4ticlone]

Worst stretch of basketball in ISU history? The Ken Trickey Era. No doubt about it. We won 3 games one year I think. Next came Lynn Nance. An assistant at Kentucky. ISU was so-so during his run but nothing great. And then came Johnny Orr.

You guys have no idea how woefully bad we were during the Ken Trickey Era.

God help us...I think we're about to find out. :realmad:

 

[cyclones500]

Maybe McDermott agreed to walk away next year with no buyout in exchange for not getting the boot this year. Just looking for a sliver lining...but somehow I keep finding rusty tin...

I could almost see that, if the "budget" problem seems to be the stumbling block.

I think there has to be something like that going on — my guess was that JP was trying to pre-arrange a manageable resignation (GM settles for far less than a buyout would cost but still gets a decent severance; JP doesn't have to play "bad guy" toward a stand-up guy, etc.) I posted something similar about a month ago and most people thought I was nuts, mainly because "Mac isn't a quitter" and "why would he quit if he's getting so much money?" Both those arguments sound reasonable, but they don't make a good argument against how Pollard and GM might actually approach the current situation in a practical sense.

 

[jbhtexas]

Joining the discussion late is never a good idea unless you decide to read each of the preceding arguments. To summarize what happened:

Somebody wrote that ISU has just had one of the worst 4 year streches in the history of college basketball. I provided simple math logic to show why this is a massive over exaggeration. I would not have posted my response if this guy had stated in the history of "BCS college basketball" or "Big 12 college basketball" (which we weren't even last place in the big 12... so... still kinda an over exaggeration).

And your logic was based on overall record, which I believe is an inaccurate measure of how good or bad the team is, particularly when ISU has done very poorly against it's peers in the Big 12.

Please make an effort to be up to speed on the argument before slamming the other side.

I was distracted by your condescension. Sorry...

So, if you can provide any statistical evidence to argue my claim that we aren't a team who has just had one of the "worst 4 year stretches in college basketball history" let alone not even history but just this most recent 4 year stretch... I will be very impressed.

Below are the rolling 4-year average conference winning % for the history of ISU MBB. The first data set is sorted from worst winning % to best winning %, and the second data set is sorted by year. The year shown is the last year of the four year rolling average. The 4 years ending in 2010 are the 8th worst overall, the worst in the last 40 years, and the worst since ISU has been a member of the Big 12. I'd say that at least qualifies for one of the worst stretches in ISU MBB history...

The data was compiled from http://www.cyclones.com//pdf5/646256.pdf

001….1927….0.217……….1911….0.670
002….1940….0.225……….1912….0.545
003….1928….0.228……….1913….0.503
004….1926….0.241……….1914….0.387
005….1939….0.250……….1915….0.405
006….1952….0.250……….1916….0.330
007….1921….0.253……….1917….0.396
008….2010….0.281……….1918….0.361
009….1977….0.286……….1919….0.304
010….1951….0.292……….1920….0.296
011….1953….0.292……….1921….0.253
012….1954….0.292……….1922….0.342
013….1920….0.296……….1923….0.414
014….1934….0.300……….1924….0.404
015….1983….0.304……….1925….0.313
016….1919….0.304……….1926….0.241
017….1929….0.312……….1927….0.217
018….1925….0.313……….1928….0.228
019….1955….0.313……….1929….0.312
020….2009….0.313……….1930….0.383
021….1984….0.321……….1931….0.367
022….1937….0.325……….1932….0.425
023….1938….0.325……….1933….0.375
024….1916….0.330……….1934….0.300
025….1973….0.339……….1935….0.400
026….1978….0.339……….1936….0.375
027….1922….0.342……….1937….0.325
028….1950….0.354……….1938….0.325
029….1972….0.357……….1939….0.250
030….1974….0.357……….1940….0.225
031….1976….0.357……….1941….0.400
032….1982….0.357……….1942….0.475
033….1918….0.361……….1943….0.400
034….1931….0.367……….1944….0.575
035….1933….0.375……….1945….0.600
036….1936….0.375……….1946….0.600
037….1930….0.383……….1947….0.675
038….1914….0.387……….1948….0.575
039….2005….0.391……….1949….0.438
040….2008….0.391……….1950….0.354
041….1990….0.393……….1951….0.292
042….1992….0.393……….1952….0.250
043….1975….0.393……….1953….0.292
044….1956….0.396……….1954….0.292
045….1917….0.396……….1955….0.313
046….1935….0.400……….1956….0.396
047….1941….0.400……….1957….0.417
048….1943….0.400……….1958….0.542
049….1924….0.404……….1959….0.530
050….1915….0.405……….1960….0.488
051….1967….0.411……….1961….0.506
052….1971….0.411……….1962….0.482
053….1979….0.411……….1963….0.554
054….1985….0.411……….1964….0.518
055….1993….0.411……….1965….0.482
056….1994….0.411……….1966….0.446
057….1991….0.411……….1967….0.411
058….1995….0.411……….1968….0.464
059….1923….0.414……….1969….0.500
060….1957….0.417……….1970….0.482
061….2006….0.422……….1971….0.411
062….1932….0.425……….1972….0.357
063….1981….0.429……….1973….0.339
064….1949….0.438……….1974….0.357
065….2007….0.438……….1975….0.393
066….1966….0.446……….1976….0.357
067….1980….0.446……….1977….0.286
068….2004….0.453……….1978….0.339
069….1968….0.464……….1979….0.411
070….1942….0.475……….1980….0.446
071….1986….0.482……….1981….0.429
072….1996….0.482……….1982….0.357
073….1962….0.482……….1983….0.304
074….1965….0.482……….1984….0.321
075….1970….0.482……….1985….0.411
076….1988….0.482……….1986….0.482
077….1989….0.482……….1987….0.482
078….1987….0.482……….1988….0.482
079….1960….0.488……….1989….0.482
080….1999….0.489……….1990….0.393
081….1997….0.496……….1991….0.411
082….1969….0.500……….1992….0.393
083….1998….0.502……….1993….0.411
084….1913….0.503……….1994….0.411
085….1961….0.506……….1995….0.411
086….1964….0.518……….1996….0.482
087….1959….0.530……….1997….0.496
088….1958….0.542……….1998….0.502
089….1912….0.545……….1999….0.489
090….2000….0.547……….2000….0.547
091….1963….0.554……….2001….0.594
092….2003….0.563……….2002….0.578
093….1944….0.575……….2003….0.563
094….1948….0.575……….2004….0.453
095….2002….0.578……….2005….0.391
096….2001….0.594……….2006….0.422
097….1945….0.600……….2007….0.438
098….1946….0.600……….2008….0.391
099….1911….0.670……….2009….0.313
100….1947….0.675……….2010….0.281

 

[Wesley]

And your logic was based on overall record, which I believe is an inaccurate measure of how good or bad the team is, particularly when ISU has done very poorly against it's peers in the Big 12.



I was distracted by your condescension. Sorry...



Below are the rolling 4-year average conference winning % for the history of ISU MBB. The first data set is sorted from worst winning % to best winning %, and the second data set is sorted by year. The year shown is the last year of the four year rolling average. The 4 years ending in 2010 are the 8th worst overall, and the worst in the last 40 years, and the worst since ISU has been a member of the Big 12. I'd say that at least qualifies for one of the worst stretches in ISU MBB history...

The data was compiled from http://www.cyclones.com//pdf5/646256.pdf

001….1927….0.217……….1911….0.670
002….1940….0.225……….1912….0.545
003….1928….0.228……….1913….0.503
004….1926….0.241……….1914….0.387
005….1939….0.250……….1915….0.405
006….1952….0.250……….1916….0.330
007….1921….0.253……….1917….0.396
008….2010….0.281……….1918….0.361
009….1977….0.286……….1919….0.304
010….1951….0.292……….1920….0.296
011….1953….0.292……….1921….0.253
012….1954….0.292……….1922….0.342
013….1920….0.296……….1923….0.414
014….1934….0.300……….1924….0.404
015….1983….0.304……….1925….0.313
016….1919….0.304……….1926….0.241
017….1929….0.312……….1927….0.217
018….1925….0.313……….1928….0.228
019….1955….0.313……….1929….0.312
020….2009….0.313……….1930….0.383
021….1984….0.321……….1931….0.367
022….1937….0.325……….1932….0.425
023….1938….0.325……….1933….0.375
024….1916….0.330……….1934….0.300
025….1973….0.339……….1935….0.400
026….1978….0.339……….1936….0.375
027….1922….0.342……….1937….0.325
028….1950….0.354……….1938….0.325
029….1972….0.357……….1939….0.250
030….1974….0.357……….1940….0.225
031….1976….0.357……….1941….0.400
032….1982….0.357……….1942….0.475
033….1918….0.361……….1943….0.400
034….1931….0.367……….1944….0.575
035….1933….0.375……….1945….0.600
036….1936….0.375……….1946….0.600
037….1930….0.383……….1947….0.675
038….1914….0.387……….1948….0.575
039….2005….0.391……….1949….0.438
040….2008….0.391……….1950….0.354
041….1990….0.393……….1951….0.292
042….1992….0.393……….1952….0.250
043….1975….0.393……….1953….0.292
044….1956….0.396……….1954….0.292
045….1917….0.396……….1955….0.313
046….1935….0.400……….1956….0.396
047….1941….0.400……….1957….0.417
048….1943….0.400……….1958….0.542
049….1924….0.404……….1959….0.530
050….1915….0.405……….1960….0.488
051….1967….0.411……….1961….0.506
052….1971….0.411……….1962….0.482
053….1979….0.411……….1963….0.554
054….1985….0.411……….1964….0.518
055….1993….0.411……….1965….0.482
056….1994….0.411……….1966….0.446
057….1991….0.411……….1967….0.411
058….1995….0.411……….1968….0.464
059….1923….0.414……….1969….0.500
060….1957….0.417……….1970….0.482
061….2006….0.422……….1971….0.411
062….1932….0.425……….1972….0.357
063….1981….0.429……….1973….0.339
064….1949….0.438……….1974….0.357
065….2007….0.438……….1975….0.393
066….1966….0.446……….1976….0.357
067….1980….0.446……….1977….0.286
068….2004….0.453……….1978….0.339
069….1968….0.464……….1979….0.411
070….1942….0.475……….1980….0.446
071….1986….0.482……….1981….0.429
072….1996….0.482……….1982….0.357
073….1962….0.482……….1983….0.304
074….1965….0.482……….1984….0.321
075….1970….0.482……….1985….0.411
076….1988….0.482……….1986….0.482
077….1989….0.482……….1987….0.482
078….1987….0.482……….1988….0.482
079….1960….0.488……….1989….0.482
080….1999….0.489……….1990….0.393
081….1997….0.496……….1991….0.411
082….1969….0.500……….1992….0.393
083….1998….0.502……….1993….0.411
084….1913….0.503……….1994….0.411
085….1961….0.506……….1995….0.411
086….1964….0.518……….1996….0.482
087….1959….0.530……….1997….0.496
088….1958….0.542……….1998….0.502
089….1912….0.545……….1999….0.489
090….2000….0.547……….2000….0.547
091….1963….0.554……….2001….0.594
092….2003….0.563……….2002….0.578
093….1944….0.575……….2003….0.563
094….1948….0.575……….2004….0.453
095….2002….0.578……….2005….0.391
096….2001….0.594……….2006….0.422
097….1945….0.600……….2007….0.438
098….1946….0.600……….2008….0.391
099….1911….0.670……….2009….0.313
100….1947….0.675……….2010….0.281

1917 was the pits. Makes one appreciate 2010.

 

[AlleyAddict]

Hey Colvin, don't let the door hit you in the ***. You should have been off the team when you walked out on your teammates during a meeting. So, now you say the Mac's system doesn't fit your style. I think it is more that since you weren't the star that you think you are that you couldn't take it. I hope your next coach has the pablum and diapers ready because he will need them with a weak kneed cry baby like you. Oliver is going to be play rings around your poor 3 ppg average and probably won't cry about it either. Your bogus excuse for leaving shows that you haven't matured enough to deserve to be a Cyclone. Good luck and don't cry when you and the rest of the world are told that you aren't NBA material. Too slow and too short... with no backbone. Good day, mate...

too bad hes going to be REALLY good somewhere else

 

[thatguy]

too bad hes going to be REALLY good somewhere else

ummm it's the kids fault that the coach is an a-hole that can't win. duh

 

[AlleyAddict]

ummm it's the kids fault that the coach is an a-hole that can't win. duh

yup, and the fact that McD told him he was going to play a different type of ball than we actually play

 

[ddisu]

Oh, those Trickey teams were brutal. At some point I felt that we probably could not have beaten some high school teams. Thanks for bringing up some very painful memories. Didn't Michigan fire Johnny Orr because they thought he was the worse coach they ever had? The last four years have been golden compared to the Trickey era. As far as cupcake schedules goes... we had them during the Trickey tenure and we lost to a good share of those very weak teams. The Cyclones were considered the cupcakes then. Mac's teams aren't good but there not the worse either.

I would like to think you are joking here but do you really think this to be true?

 

[dbronco7sc]

And your logic was based on overall record, which I believe is an inaccurate measure of how good or bad the team is, particularly when ISU has done very poorly against it's peers in the Big 12.

A) There are many quotes on this site that argue against Mac that state that W's are all that matter. Therefore, I'm using the 'only stat that matters' when discussing with those people.

B) AGAIN, I repeat... my post ONLY disputed the claim that this was the worst 4 year period in "college basketball history". Everything you wrote is discussion of Big 12. If I am correct, then there are well over 300 NCAA Division 1 Mens basketball teams. There are also Division 2 and 3 college basketball teams. There are NAIA college basketball teams. There are women's college basketball teams for all of these levels as well.

C) Even ignoring all of these other college basketball teams... just looking at NCAA division 1 college basketball teams. This is no where close to being the worst 4 year stretch in "Division 1 NCAA Mens college basketball in 2006-2010" let alone "college basketball history".

I apologize if I came off as rude, but you jumped into an argument telling disputing my claim using unrelated data.

I am not on a side anymore on the 'keep mac/fire mac' debate. I'm as frustrated as everyone else. I just can't stand people who make extremely exaggerated claims becuase they're unhappy with the current state of the program.

Do I think being just under a .500 record is acceptable? No.
Do I think we're even remotely close to having had one of the worst 4 year stretches in college basketball history? Not by a long shot.

The 4 years ending in 2010 are the 8th worst overall, the worst in the last 40 years, and the worst since ISU has been a member of the Big 12. I'd say that at least qualifies for one of the worst stretches in ISU MBB history...

The above argument is something I can accept and would never have argued in the first place. but ISU MBB history is much different than "college basketball history".

 

[Dryburn]

Worst stretch of basketball in ISU history? The Ken Trickey Era. No doubt about it. We won 3 games one year I think. Next came Lynn Nance. An assistant at Kentucky. ISU was so-so during his run but nothing great. And then came Johnny Orr.

You guys have no idea how woefully bad we were during the Ken Trickey Era.

Some of us do have an idea because we were there.

Record-wise, it was a bad two-year period. Not so terrible the first year (10-16) but after that, it became clear that Trickey was in over his head. So I guess from only a record standpoint, it was one of the worse periods.

However, the thing I do remember about those two years was that the basketball was still exciting to watch, especially the first year. Trickey had come to ISU from Oral Roberts, and his teams were strictly run and gun. That first year, the team was regularly scoring in the 90's, and broke 100 like 5 or 6 times during the season. So even though they were a losing team, they were fun to watch. Hercle Ivy was on that team, and he was always entertaining.

I'm not sure the Ken Trickey years should even be in a discussion about the worst "era" in ISU MBB. The "era" only lasted 2 seasons. Hardly a blip.

 

[Wesley]

Some of us do have an idea because we were there.

Record-wise, it was a bad two-year period. Not so terrible the first year (10-16) but after that, it became clear that Trickey was in over his head. So I guess from only a record standpoint, it was one of the worse periods.

However, the thing I do remember about those two years was that the basketball was still exciting to watch, especially the first year. Trickey had come to ISU from Oral Roberts, and his teams were strictly run and gun. That first year, the team was regularly scoring in the 90's, and broke 100 like 5 or 6 times during the season. So even though they were a losing team, they were fun to watch. Hercle Ivy was on that team, and he was always entertaining.

I'm not sure the Ken Trickey years should even be in a discussion about the worst "era" in ISU MBB. The "era" only lasted 2 seasons. Hardly a blip.

Trickey was as successful as Lickliter.

 

[Dryburn]

Trickey was as successful as Lickliter.

LOL. Agreed, but his style of basketball was a hell of a lot more fun to watch.