Nightmare in Maryville
- Thread starter cydsho
- Start date
Yeah that bottom quote has nothing to do with the top quote. It doesn't say this is what happened and what I believe, it states what I am guessing could have really happened.
Right you're just guessing the girl cried rape because her mom freaked out. I got it.
I am guessing that COULD have happened. Not what I believe happened. I am just looking at the situation from another side, not the the one side everyone else is looking at.
I know it's a bummer when your exact words are used later on to make you look bad, but it doesn't make it better to pretend you said something else.
I am not pretending I said something else. You are clearly reading what you want to read. How about I put it this way, I don't know what really happened, you don't know what really happened.
Here is the problem for the two guys, legally there really isn't another side. The girls were drinking and were intoxicated. That means they couldn't give consent. It doesn't even matter if the girls said it was ok (and there is a lot of doubt as to whether the girls were even "willing"), they still couldn't give consent and that makes it a crime.
and right here, is why rape goes unreported. How disgusting.
These boys are just lucky she didn't freeze to death on that lawn. Those charges might not have been as easy to sweep under the rug.
These boys are just lucky she didn't freeze to death on that lawn. Those charges might not have been as easy to sweep under the rug.
Oh you mean people guessing that she's crying rape because she regrets it and because her mom got mad?
Well, anything COULD have happened.
I will also add if you can picture something like this happening to you (not necessarily you, but rhetorically) at age 17 (i.e. being drunk at a party, going to pick up a 14 year old girl who was already drinking, giving the girl more to drink, having sex with her, dropping her off outside her house in 30 degree weather in the middle of the night) then you need to re-examine your life. Nothing about that situation is remotely OK. NOTHING. I don't care what it is like to be a teenager and I don't care if everyone else is doing it (there I go sounding like a mother again), if any part of that whole situation sounds logical or OK or like someone is being framed, then you need to really think about a lot of things.
well and she was just trying to impress the boys and teenage boys just can't not have sex with a drunken 14 year old. I wonder about the near death part though, was she asking for that too?
I'm still incredibly uncomfortable with the idea of a statute that's drawn in such a fashion that makes consensual activity illegal. I don't know if the Missouri statute is drawn that way, and if there is a distinction between mere intoxication and full-blown incapacitation, but if there isn't, it's scary on a lot of levels. Not only would it criminalize consensual behavior that absolutely should not be criminalized, but it builds a "drunk" excuse into our laws that could be used in other applications. People could allege intoxication as a way to back out of responsibility in other scenarios.
The way I look at it, current statutes cover the situation of a girl being passed out and being raped. If you are unable to talk, and are unconscious, you cannot consent, and therefore sexual activity with someone in that state is rape. I think the evidence in this case indicates that one of the girls flat out said "no", and the other was drunk to the point that they were not able to communicate and give consent, and therefore probably were raped. There didn't need to be a special "alcohol incapacitation" clause in order to show a lack of consent.
Several times in high school or college I'd help out friends or people I barely knew make it home ok when I saw them struggling, let alone a girl I was intimate with the same night...it's incredibly disturbing that people in this thread think having sex with a young girl (even if it is consensual which is highly unlikely) and leaving her passed out on a lawn is part of a standard adolescence.
I'm pretty sure these girls were raped, but the idea that just being drunk means you can't consent is a really, really bad thing, and leads to a major slippery slope. I realize that due to this being an emotional issue, people will struggle with what I'm trying to convey and accuse me of saying these girls weren't raped or had it coming, but that's not at all the argument and my words don't convey it at any point.
If I take my wife out to dinner and she has a couple glasses of wine, and we go home and have relations, did I just rape her? Because that's exactly what could come of the idea that someone who is legally intoxicated is incapable of consenting. Could people start charging stuff on their credit card while drunk and then not pay their bill because they were incapable of consenting? That's the door you open with creating a per se "you can't consent when drunk" clause. Some people might be too drunk to consent, but that's something that you have to show in each individual case, not just create some blanket application for.
If I take my wife out to dinner and she has a couple glasses of wine, and we go home and have relations, did I just rape her? Because that's exactly what could come of the idea that someone who is legally intoxicated is incapable of consenting. Could people start charging stuff on their credit card while drunk and then not pay their bill because they were incapable of consenting? That's the door you open with creating a per se "you can't consent when drunk" clause. Some people might be too drunk to consent, but that's something that you have to show in each individual case, not just create some blanket application for.
The idea that it's not rape until the girl is unconscious seems pretty scary too.