Montgomery and Thomas are gone

[Stormin]

Good article by Alex on Scout. Pretty much sums up why we should not get too worked up about losing Josh Thomas. Remember that Josh Thomas replaced the departed Martinez Syria last year as a true Freshman. David Montgomery has the potential to be even better than Josh Thomas. And puts Josh Thomas performance last year in perspective.

http://www.scout.com/college/iowa-state/story/1641617-why-iowa-state-can-replace-joshua-thomas

 

[Miniclone11]

Once again...I wasn't saying we are UT or anything like it...saying that teams have to do what they have to do.

Just because a team is young, doesn't necesarily mean they can't at least compete.

but in our case, it does. You can't compare 2 top 5 classes with ours and say "but it happens". Cuz it really doesn't. And I'm not saying that's gonna happen, because we haven't lost them yet. Yet. Let's hope we don't.

 

[Stormin]

but in our case, it does. You can't compare 2 top 5 classes with ours and say "but it happens". Cuz it really doesn't. And I'm not saying that's gonna happen, because we haven't lost them yet. Yet. Let's hope we don't.

We have had some true freshmen contribute and we have had some players that have not contributed in their whole career.

Each player is different. Each has different potential and each player may or may not contribute early. As far as RB is concerned, we had a RS Freshman rush for over 1,000 yards. And for two consecutive seasons we had two different true freshmen play significant plays as the short yardage back. It is not beyond reason to think that David Montgomery can perform just as well as those two freshman backs did in their first seasons. We had a true freshman Lazzard that contributed as a true Freshman at WR. Jauan Wesley played significantly as a true freshman and started a game.

For the most part we are not going to be relying on true freshmen. But we may have some members that may play some as true freshmen.

It was thought at the time of many of these players that were recruited that they would be able to compete and had more potential than many of our older players on the roster. It happens. It has happened at Iowa State where we have played true freshmen. This is the best recruiting class we have had at Iowa State in a long time. It is not unreasonable to think that some may contribute as true freshmen.

 

[Miniclone11]

We have had some true freshmen contribute and we have had some players that have not contributed in their whole career.

Each player is different. Each has different potential and each player may or may not contribute early. As far as RB is concerned, we had a RS Freshman rush for over 1,000 yards. And for two consecutive seasons we had two different true freshmen play significant plays as the short yardage back. It is not beyond reason to think that David Montgomery can perform just as well as those two freshman backs did in their first seasons. We had a true freshman Lazzard that contributed as a true Freshman at WR. Jauan Wesley played significantly as a true freshman and started a game.

For the most part we are not going to be relying on true freshmen. But we may have some members that may play some as true freshmen.

It was thought at the time of many of these players that were recruited that they would be able to compete and had more potential than many of our older players on the roster. It happens. It has happened at Iowa State where we have played true freshmen. This is the best recruiting class we have had at Iowa State in a long time. It is not unreasonable to think that some may contribute as true freshmen.

Dude. I'm saying if we have 12-15 upperclassmen leave, we will have issues. Which will mean we have freshman starting in places they shouldn't. It won't help us next year.

Which is why I hope they don't leave because I think we will be good if we combine the two.

 

[khardbored]

Is it going too far to say that in general it's better to not have talented upper classmen leave a team early, or that in general it's better to have more depth rather than less depth?

I don't think it's unreasonable to have some concern about 15-20 upper classmen leaving the team (if that is true.)

 

[CySoup]

Call the workouts whatever you want to call them but my son did them for 5 years and it didn't kill him. In fact, it made him into one tough, strong, confident football player that expected successon the field and as he became an upperclassman demanded the same from others. One story. One workout at Toledo was difficult, to say the least, and one lineman who was alittle soft stopped running and fell down exhausted. The players encouraged him to gut it out. When he refused, a few of the seniors dragged him off the field and from what I heard were not complementing him during the process. Right now the staff needs to build player leadership and that doesn't happen overnight.

There is a school just East of us that just settled a lawsuit for having workouts like these. I'm all for making a team tougher, but putting players at risk aint the way to make them better.

What you described could also be considered bullying and harassment, it is a fine line. To act like it is ok to shame someone because they couldn't finish a workout is low rent. Maybe the kid was dehydrated, maybe he was sick, maybe it was health related and not just a matter of "will". Sometimes the body fails even when the mind is willing.

They used to shame guys into going back on the field like this. They used to tell them to "shake it off", when a dude came stumbling to the sideline with a concussion. Players were told to quit being such a ***** and get back out there!!!! That seems like a great way to treat players, right?

 

[mdk2isu]

There is a school just East of us that just settled a lawsuit for having workouts like these. I'm all for making a team tougher, but putting players at risk aint the way to make them better.

What you described could also be considered bullying and harassment, it is a fine line. To act like it is ok to shame someone because they couldn't finish a workout is low rent. Maybe the kid was dehydrated, maybe he was sick, maybe it was health related and not just a matter of "will". Sometimes the body fails even when the mind is willing.

They used to shame guys into going back on the field like this. They used to tell them to "shake it off", when a dude came stumbling to the sideline with a concussion. Players were told to quit being such a ***** and get back out there!!!! That seems like a great way to treat players, right?

When tolfbfan says the kid refused to gut it out, that doesnt sound to me like he was dehydrated, sick or health related. Sounds like he just didnt want to continue pushing himself.

Being tough isnt bullying or harassment. Its being tough. Big difference.

 

[Stormin]

Dude. I'm saying if we have 12-15 upperclassmen leave, we will have issues. Which will mean we have freshman starting in places they shouldn't. It won't help us next year.

Which is why I hope they don't leave because I think we will be good if we combine the two.

Dude. I am saying that we do not know we will have issues until we know who those upperclassmen are and the reasons they are leaving.

D'Vario Montgomery......probably won't miss him that much at all.

Josh Thomas..........hate to lose him, but as the Scout article pointed out 29 of Thomas 75 carries were for 1 yard or less...and 119 yards of his 295 yards gained came on just 7 carries. IMO, David Montgomery has more potential.

Rohach......backup, hate to lose him but I am pleased with the addition of Jacob Park, IMO he has more potential.

Tyler Brown.....back up that was not getting much playing time at the end of the season.

Nick Severs.....back up Center that appeared to be a desire to be recruited over by both Coaching Staffs.

Jake Rhoads....long snapper replaced by Wirtel, one of the best in the nation, athletic long snapper.

Dan Burton......huge loss, Burton was very good when healthy. Unfortunately he is not healthy. And that is the reason for his departure. Injuries are part of football. They suck.

So far I see one player leaving that will have a big impact. Dan Burton, who has suffered numerous injuries and wishes to end his career while he can still walk. Can't blame anybody for that.

Not sure who the others are that will be leaving but I am thinking they won't be any of our really good ones. Nothing we can not overcome.

 

[CyFy]

There is a school just East of us that just settled a lawsuit for having workouts like these. I'm all for making a team tougher, but putting players at risk aint the way to make them better.

What you described could also be considered bullying and harassment, it is a fine line. To act like it is ok to shame someone because they couldn't finish a workout is low rent. Maybe the kid was dehydrated, maybe he was sick, maybe it was health related and not just a matter of "will". Sometimes the body fails even when the mind is willing.

They used to shame guys into going back on the field like this. They used to tell them to "shake it off", when a dude came stumbling to the sideline with a concussion. Players were told to quit being such a ***** and get back out there!!!! That seems like a great way to treat players, right?

Having a guy stop running and lay down is a lot different than sending multiple people to the hospital...also that is not even close to bullying

 

[CySoup]

When tolfbfan says the kid refused to gut it out, that doesnt sound to me like he was dehydrated, sick or health related. Sounds like he just didnt want to continue pushing himself.

Being tough isnt bullying or harassment. Its being tough. Big difference.

He fell down exhausted, that is what tolfbfan said. How in the world do those kids, his coaches, tolfbfan, or you know what his condition was?

It sounds exactly like the stupid ignorant people who used to tell my friend who was a HUGE hitter in high school, so just "shake it off", "get back out there", "there is nothing wrong with you", when he was obviously concussed.

 

[CyFy]

He fell down exhausted, that is what tolfbfan said. How in the world do those kids, his coaches, tolfbfan, or you know what his condition was?

It sounds exactly like the stupid ignorant people who used to tell my friend who was a HUGE hitter in high school, so just "shake it off", "get back out there", "there is nothing wrong with you", when he was obviously concussed.

So you know his condition....they would all have a better opinion of it than you. Have you ever seen someone drop that was truely exhausted...it is pretty easy to tell if they are. The guys wouldn't have said something like that if something was really wrong because there is no mistaking when some really does hit their limit

 

[CySoup]

So you know his condition....they would all have a better opinion of it than you. Have you ever seen someone drop that was truely exhausted...it is pretty easy to tell if they are. The guys wouldn't have said something like that if something was really wrong because there is no mistaking when some really does hit their limit

LOL man, yeah some 18-22 year old kid have great medical training, and know exactly what is going on in all cases.

Coaches used to DENY water to kids, it was a sign of weakness to "drink water". We used to tell kids, not problem, go back out and play with that concussion, you gotta be "tough" We used to do lots of stupid things. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing better now. Letting other players "drag" a kid out of a workout after he collapsed from exhaustion (tolfbfan words not mine) isn't exactly the kind of medical treatment that we should be striving for at ISU.

If you can't see that, I'm not going to waste my time arguing it with you.

 

[Stormin]

LOL man, yeah some 18-22 year old kid have great medical training, and know exactly what is going on in all cases.

Coaches used to DENY water to kids, it was a sign of weakness to "drink water". We used to tell kids, not problem, go back out and play with that concussion. We used to do lots of stupid things. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing better now. Letting other players "carry" a kid out of a workout after he collapsed from exhaustion (tolfbfan words not mine) isn't exactly the kind of medical treatment that we should be striving for at ISU.

If you can't see that, I'm not going to waste my time arguing it with you.

So workouts should be easy? The 'No pain, no gain." slogan should be out? if a player starts sweating during a workout he should be allowed to just stop? It should be up to the player?

Disagree. Coaches need to use some common sense and not endanger lives. At the same time, players need to be pushed and motivated to be the best they can be if we want to have a good team. Lazy teams that don't work hard get beaten. You have obviously not heard of the slogan......."We Bust Ours......So We Can Kick Yours".

 

[mdk2isu]

LOL man, yeah some 18-22 year old kid have great medical training, and know exactly what is going on in all cases.

Coaches used to DENY water to kids, it was a sign of weakness to "drink water". We used to tell kids, not problem, go back out and play with that concussion, you gotta be "tough" We used to do lots of stupid things. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing better now. Letting other players "drag" a kid out of a workout after he collapsed from exhaustion (tolfbfan words not mine) isn't exactly the kind of medical treatment that we should be striving for at ISU.

If you can't see that, I'm not going to waste my time arguing it with you.

If you are ok with kids giving up because it got tough and they are tired, have fun losing. Its called having mental toughness.

Concussions are a completely different topic. Doesnt sound to me like any head injury was involed in what tolfbfan said, so that topic is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[HFCS]

IDK who Andrew Smith is, but Indian Outlaw (person who RT'd it) is Jake Rhoads. Paul Rhoads son.

I realize a RT isnt an endorsement but I found this interesting considering I've heard from a good source close to the program that there is a group of probably 12-15 guys on the team that share this same sentiment as Andrew Smiths tweet.

Hopefully a storm of knowing how to kneel out the ball in a win is brewing. We were to the point where college bros playing Madden in their dorm could have made better game decisions.

 

[nhclone]

Hopefully a storm of knowing how to kneel out the ball in a win is brewing. We were to the point where college bros playing Madden in their dorm could have made better game decisions.

4 Verticals. Need to get that passing yardage up so my QB is MVP this season.

 

[CyFy]

LOL man, yeah some 18-22 year old kid have great medical training, and know exactly what is going on in all cases.

Coaches used to DENY water to kids, it was a sign of weakness to "drink water". We used to tell kids, not problem, go back out and play with that concussion, you gotta be "tough" We used to do lots of stupid things. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing better now. Letting other players "drag" a kid out of a workout after he collapsed from exhaustion (tolfbfan words not mine) isn't exactly the kind of medical treatment that we should be striving for at ISU.

If you can't see that, I'm not going to waste my time arguing it with you.

I take it you have never seen some actually collapse from exhaustion then...you don't have to be a medical expert to tell there is an actual issue. Also you are implying a lot about a story that someone else told because of a couple words. Did he say anything about them not getting water or that he was telling people to play with concussions?

He was talking about conditioning. I might add that other teammates still had the energy to "drag" him off the field even after finishing the conditioning.

If this was you story and you witnessed it I may give you the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there, but you are arguing this like you witnessed it and not like you heard a story that used terms like exhausted and dragged.

 

[HitItHard58]

I take it you have never seen some actually collapse from exhaustion then...you don't have to be a medical expert to tell there is an actual issue. Also you are implying a lot about a story that someone else told because of a couple words. Did he say anything about them not getting water or that he was telling people to play with concussions?

He was talking about conditioning. I might add that other teammates still had the energy to "drag" him off the field even after finishing the conditioning.

If this was you story and you witnessed it I may give you the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there, but you are arguing this like you witnessed it and not like you heard a story that used terms like exhausted and dragged.

Well he had a friend who was forced to play while concussed so he would know. Who you gonna trust here? Bunch of 18-22 year old eyewitnesses who participate in tough workouts regularly and knew the kid personally or a message board poster who read a brief synopsis of the incident? Soup is obviously the expert here.

Sarcasm should be pretty obvious but just in case......

 

[Cyclophile1]

Dude. I am saying that we do not know we will have issues until we know who those upperclassmen are and the reasons they are leaving.

D'Vario Montgomery......probably won't miss him that much at all.

Josh Thomas..........hate to lose him, but as the Scout article pointed out 29 of Thomas 75 carries were for 1 yard or less...and 119 yards of his 295 yards gained came on just 7 carries. IMO, David Montgomery has more potential.

Rohach......backup, hate to lose him but I am pleased with the addition of Jacob Park, IMO he has more potential.

Tyler Brown.....back up that was not getting much playing time at the end of the season.

Nick Severs.....back up Center that appeared to be a desire to be recruited over by both Coaching Staffs.

Jake Rhoads....long snapper replaced by Wirtel, one of the best in the nation, athletic long snapper.

Dan Burton......huge loss, Burton was very good when healthy. Unfortunately he is not healthy. And that is the reason for his departure. Injuries are part of football. They suck.

So far I see one player leaving that will have a big impact. Dan Burton, who has suffered numerous injuries and wishes to end his career while he can still walk. Can't blame anybody for that.

Not sure who the others are that will be leaving but I am thinking they won't be any of our really good ones. Nothing we can not overcome.

Burton is the only major loss at this time. With his health history it's all but certain he wasn't going to be available for all 12 games either, so we needed a player or two to be there anyway. Burton was very good at times when healthy so it hurts. All the others are replaceable to some degree from no impact to minor impact. Thomas falls into the minor impact I think. Freshmen RBs play all over the place. Montgomery should fill the role aptly and we'll have a young Campbell guy happy and motivated to have the PT at one of the glamour spots. D'Vario could be considered minor as well, but he was always in the doghouse and didn't live up to potential. Butler or someone else can step up. Lazard should get 80% of the looks anyway in most formations. The rest are zero impact in my opinion, both sides benefit from having them move on.

 

[CySoup]

I take it you have never seen some actually collapse from exhaustion then...you don't have to be a medical expert to tell there is an actual issue. Also you are implying a lot about a story that someone else told because of a couple words. Did he say anything about them not getting water or that he was telling people to play with concussions?

He was talking about conditioning. I might add that other teammates still had the energy to "drag" him off the field even after finishing the conditioning.

If this was you story and you witnessed it I may give you the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there, but you are arguing this like you witnessed it and not like you heard a story that used terms like exhausted and dragged.

Well he had a friend who was forced to play while concussed so he would know. Who you gonna trust here? Bunch of 18-22 year old eyewitnesses who participate in tough workouts regularly and knew the kid personally or a message board poster who read a brief synopsis of the incident? Soup is obviously the expert here.

Sarcasm should be pretty obvious but just in case......

I'm sure the brilliant minds over in Iowa City were saying the same thing to those kids who went to the hospital with Rhabdo. "Everyone before you did this", "Quit slacking, everyone else made it through the workouts". Sometimes ***** happens to people, and if you want medical care for our players to consist of players "draging" off other players who collapse then I can only hope that you two ******* idiots have nothing to do with youth sports, or high school sports.