I had heard rumors that ISU was good at stealing signs and that is why Heacock's defense was almost always better in the second half.
Michigan
- Thread starter cycloneML
- Start date
How do you define TV? I am assuming you are talking about scouting video available to schools of future opponents. But it that case, every school is on a level playing field.
What Michigan did by sending people to games to videotape the opponents sideline obviously gave them an advantage. Otherwise, Stalions wouldn't have done it 37+ times.
Again this statement “what Michigan did” is going to be the centerpiece of the entire investigation/punishment. If this was a rogue agent wanting to grow his presence within cfb or if others at Michigan knew about what he was doing.
If it’s a guy going solo the punishment is going to be pretty light and based off the NCAA already stating the the benefit of stealing signs is minimal. If it’s an organized or authorized operation then I’m fine with the punishment being significantly higher.
Nebraska did just that in the early 90's! We're going to run it down your throat. Try and stop it!!!
So Michigan was clearly cheating here. I’m fine saying that. The problem I have with a harsh penalty like vacating wins or anything material to the actual games is that the SEC has propped itself up WHILE cheating. I’m not saying they wouldn’t have won all those championships without it but they were certainly paying players. Clemson was paying players. OSU was paying players. A lot of schools are cheating academically. It’s the overarching problem with the NCAA where some cheating by Mike Boyton is wrong and they get hammered but a lot of cheating by Louisville and KU won’t be. Reggie Bush gets his Heisman taken away and Cam Newton doesn’t. Michigan gets investigated for recruiting during COVID but OSU doesn’t for practicing during COVID. Either they are an enforcement agency or they aren’t I don’t think they have much time left to exist because they can’t monitor and enforce anything with any sort of consistency.
The surprising thing about UM, if you’ve watched much of them is that until recently they could barely get a play in on time and now they are evidently running intel ops.
Quotes from an Athletic article today from four current coaches who remained anonymous. They clearly grasp the difference between stealing signs real-time in the stadium with no technology versus what Michigan is accused of doing:
Never take a single anonymous source in sports seriously for issues like this. They can say anything they want without any fallout from putting their name on it. It’s a travesty that almost all sports journalism now almost exclusively uses annon sources.
do you know why there isn't technology on the sideline in college football? Because the coaches keep turning it down as a rule change.
Why do they keep turning it down?
Because they also sign steal!
Why do they keep turning it down?
Because they also sign steal!
You seem pretty adamant about this and there is some information out there to support it.
Still, if it was a solo guy/obsessed fan doing it, why is Michigan accepting the information? And how did he end up on the staff?
It may have started out that way, but he's a member of the team! I could go out, fly around and scout teams myself....but that information won't do any school any good unless they take it from me.
Obv I have a major bias when it comes to this.
This guy has been around the program for years, even people like Devin Gardner remember him being at almost every game. Add in the Navy grad and veteran stuff and he had credibility. He comes to the school saying he figured out signs from TV (varieties in the SI article) the school believes him due to the credibility and sees that he’s right. Again we don’t know how much of his info they used or even how effective it was.
People seem to be jumping to a conclusion due to the record the past couple years that it was incredibly valuable but understandably don’t realize that these teams the last couple years have been the most talented Michigan teams in decades, especially when the rest of the league has been down.
So if it has some value they add the guy to the staff and pay him basically nothing believing that he is getting the info from TV/film (which is legal) like he stated. Again I have my bias but I just don’t think Harbaugh would cheat on the field. Buy a couple burgers sure, have extra practices or recruiting talks, yeah, but I just can’t see him cheating on the field. I could be completely wrong but that’s just where I’m staying until I see a single fact that said he or the coordinators knew.
I’m in agreement here.
At the end of the day, the players gotta make the plays too. MSU ditched all sideline play calls and had the QB run for every play and STILL got the crap beat out of em. “Anonymous” coaches can say all they want because it is better for them if harbaugh does get in some level of trouble, so they’ll embellish even though their programs are doing some level of sign stealing too.
Also, why the hell would teams not change up their play calls throughout the season? They’re just asking for signs to be stolen.
I remember early in the season, maybe OKstate game, TV commentators mentioning how nearly everyone on the ISU offense has a wristband play sheet. Makes sense from what we’ve been learning about sign stealing in general, allows teams to make changes to how plays are called without being too complicated with it.
At the end of the day, this guy(group) broke a rule related to cost cutting. Sounds like the guy wasn’t really hiding anything either, not like they were putting microphones in trash cans. It’s probably better for Michigan that the guy did use his real name and wasn’t concealing it.
Without precedence and suggested punishment being noted for the rule, I have a hard time seeing this amounting to much other than suspensions. It’s the NCAA so it’s going to be a few years anyways.
There is nothing better than anonymous college football coaches commenting on breaking rules and general ethics. I take that back. Dabo giving us the Lord's commentary on the situation while Dabo has been cheating his **** off for 10 years would be better. This is all just the richest of pies.
Whether or not it was effective, I don't know and I don't believe it's a factor either way. Michigan would have been wise to just leave it alone. Had he not been on the staff, this wouldn't be a discussion. Hiring him is where things get murky.
Perhaps unrelated, I think you're nuts if you don't think Harbaugh would cheat on the field. These guys will do ANYTHING for an edge and Harbaugh is no exception.
If he’s providing a service he should be hired. Lying about how he was providing that service is a different story but doesn’t mean the school/team knew.
I 100% don’t think Harbaugh would cheat on the field. Football is sacred to the guy. This isn’t dabo or saban we’re talking about here.
A little due diligence would go a long way when hiring staff members, particular if they're a low level staff member who seems to have solid information. If the staff wasn't able to figure it out from the TV, how did this guy do it? This feels like Michigan is buying stereos out of the trunk of a 98 Altima.
I'm generally in agreement with your posts but I think the blinders might be interfering on this one. Something certainly smells funny in Ann Arbor.
My dad said he met an OU player who played in the 1970s and ran his own locksmith shop. Dad asked him how he learned how to pick locks. “Oh, that’s easy. Remember the Selmon brothers? Switzer told me my job was to go into the counselors office, open the safe and change their grades.”
