L J Needs Our Support!

[tube1]

i am absolutely not associated with jason in anyway what so ever if that's what you're implying.

Also if anyone watched the Bills game yesterday there was a hit on one of the running backs six yards in the end zone. It drew a personal foul, no ejection. These hits do happen. Not saying I condone it just that it does happen and that we're making it a much bigger deal that it needs to be at this point.

Sorry. I wasn't trying to imply that you are a Berryman apologist. Just that the tenor of the post and your screen name was quite ironic!

I agree that LJ needs to bottle up some of his enthusiasm and take it out when appropriate. The coaching staff and NCAA will impose whatever penalties they see fit. However the coaching staff also needs to take into consideration what's best for the team. Does his solid play most of the time outweigh the risk of a stupid penalty when he doesn't use his head? That's coaching right there and a gamble the coaching staff needs to make.

Tough call. Dismissing him is probably the worst action that could be taken here. Coach him to contain and channel the aggressiveness. And have clearly defined consequences laid out in advance as he now has set a precedent.

 

[Stormin]

Has ANYONE said that LJ needs to go?

Seriously?

You have been more vocal than most in expressing your opinion on this issue. IMO, you would not be that disappointed to open the door and shove LJ out personally.

I am not going to argue whether it was a bad penalty or not. It was. But you are making this sound like LJ is a serial killer. Or at the very least a very dirty player. I would argue that he is being a bit overly aggressive. That he needs to reign in his emotions a little. He has had ONE pretty bad PF. The others seem kind of ticky tacky. He will have to watch it or Chizik will bench him. I am sure that we will see him improve and get his aggressiveness under control. He made a mistake. MOVE ON.

But your arguing about how it is the most shameful display ever for Cyclone athletics is WAY over the top. It is a late hit. I have seen far worse. It is ONE penalty. LET IT GO.

 

[CyAg]

Stormin,

It was one penalty, right after another penalty and I think what is bothering some is the attiude being displayed before and after, combined with the total number the team has run up.

 

[Angie]

I'm pretty well over this whole subject, but I'll say this:

If Iowa had a player who had four personal fouls in four games, and one of them was a very late hit, what would we be saying? If the tables had turned and UNLV had a player with these two hits against us... would we not be discussing it? Of course we would, and we'd be upset. We were upset about their coach's (and team's) actions two years ago, and none of those caused our QB to lie on the ground for a couple of minutes after the play hurt. The reason I was upset was LJ's seeming total lack of concern (cheering after the first penalty, staying and chatting on the sidelines after the ejection). I watched him very closely.

This isn't a non-issue, no matter what your opinion is. Try looking at it objectively. Obviously none of us are going to decide what will happen (and Chizik is in a rough spot), but this is something about which we should be concerned.

 

[ISUFan22]

I'm pretty well over this whole subject, but I'll say this:

If Iowa had a player who had four personal fouls in four games, and one of them was a very late hit, what would we be saying? If the tables had turned and UNLV had a player with these two hits against us... would we not be discussing it? Of course we would, and we'd be upset. We were upset about their coach's (and team's) actions two years ago, and none of those caused our QB to lie on the ground for a couple of minutes after the play hurt. The reason I was upset was LJ's seeming total lack of concern (cheering after the first penalty, staying and chatting on the sidelines after the ejection). I watched him very closely.

This isn't a non-issue, no matter what your opinion is. Try looking at it objectively. Obviously none of us are going to decide what will happen (and Chizik is in a rough spot), but this is something about which we should be concerned.

Not much else needs to be said.

And stormin - putting words in a guy's mouth is just ridiculous. I've watched jumbo say many, many times - he does not believe LJ should be booted. He, like myself, simply want a strict discipline to be enforced - or whatever it takes to get this BS to stop.

 

[Stormin]

Not much else needs to be said.

And stormin - putting words in a guy's mouth is just ridiculous. I've watched jumbo say many, many times - he does not believe LJ should be booted. He, like myself, simply want a strict discipline to be enforced - or whatever it takes to get this BS to stop.

But you and others have been more than vocal in stating that you think that it might be acceptable for LJ to be suspended for the season possibly. I am just saying that he has had ONE bad PF. Iowa PF wasn't even a PF and shouldn't have been called. The first PF he ever got was questionable. And the first PF call against UNLV was HOW BAD?

I agree. The increased PF's that we are getting are troubling. But we are NOW playing a very aggressive Defense which is COMPLETELY different than our sit back seven yards and let them come us defense under McCarney. The result is TURNOVERS. Yes, we are very aggressive. Yes, we might get some PF's. But I was always the type of ballplayer that was very physical. I like the aggressiveness. I think it creates opportunity. Non-aggressive teams are the type of teams that get beat.

We need to exercise better judgment. No doubt. But I still want this team to play aggressive D. If we get a PF once in a while, so be it. I DO NOT want to continue to get the type of PF's That LJ laid on that QB. That is DUMB. But the type of PF that LJ got against Moeaki, I have NO Problem with and it should NOT have been called.

Just think that the One game suspension is enough and maybe conditioning drills for LJ. If he continues to get PF's, especially on cheap shots, then Chizik will reduce his playing time drastically. Count on it.

 

[jumbopackage]

I don't agree with this.

Just what part of either PF had to do with the 38 yds of total offense we had in the first half? Notta.... We couldn't do anything less after the ejection than we did before his ejection.

These two LJ threads are emberassing to say the least....:no:

His PF's arguably extended a drive that resulted in the first score of the game. Had ISU stopped UNLV there, there's a chance we could have gone into halftime down by 14 instead of 21, and there's a chance we win the game. Who knows what would have happened, but stopping them from scoring on that drive would have been a big deal.

Same thing in the Iowa game...

You have been more vocal than most in expressing your opinion on this issue. IMO, you would not be that disappointed to open the door and shove LJ out personally.

I am not going to argue whether it was a bad penalty or not. It was. But you are making this sound like LJ is a serial killer. Or at the very least a very dirty player. I would argue that he is being a bit overly aggressive. That he needs to reign in his emotions a little. He has had ONE pretty bad PF. The others seem kind of ticky tacky. He will have to watch it or Chizik will bench him. I am sure that we will see him improve and get his aggressiveness under control. He made a mistake. MOVE ON.

But your arguing about how it is the most shameful display ever for Cyclone athletics is WAY over the top. It is a late hit. I have seen far worse. It is ONE penalty. LET IT GO.

IMO, you have not read anything I said then. I would be very disappointed to lose him. If we did, however, it would be because he's brought it on himself through his actions on the field. If Chizik WERE to dismiss him from the team, and I don't think he will or should by any stretch, I don't think it would be an incredible overreaction. After all, he put JJ in the doghouse for essentially doing nothing wrong at all.

And I have never said it's the most shameful display ever for Cyclone athletics. Stop putting words in my mouth, and opinions out there that I clearly haven't stated.

LJ is turning into a dirty player, to be honest. And, although there is a whole lot of grey area between "overly aggressive" and "dirty player", his track record over 4 games certainly puts him squarely in the "overly aggressive" category, and borderline into the "dirty player" category.

I don't care if they ARE ticky tacky PFs. You've got to learn to not draw them. Rationalizing them doesn't make them go away. And not learning from your mistakes and continuing to draw them will only continue to hurt the team. And that applies not just to LJ, but to every other player who has drawn one this year.

Last year we gave up field position on special teams and made mistakes and turnovers that took us out of too many games. This year it's PFs at critical moments that are killing us.

LJ knocking himself out of the Iowa game, getting himself kicked out of UNLV and Kansas means that he's already kept himself out of more or less 3 games just by being "overly aggressive". That's 1/4 of the season he's been out just because he can't keep his emotions in check, or tackle instead of "hit".

We can't afford not to have a kid that talented off the field. And he's doing himself and the team no favors by being "overly aggressive".

 

[Cyclone90]

Here's the bottom line folks. We're #6 in the nation in penalty yardage. 70 yards/game. We're essentially handing them better field position and scoring opportunities.

ESPN - NCAA College Football Statistics - NCAA Football

Many have said we have little margin for error and they are right. Our toss up games will continue to be losses if this keeps up. This has to stop. Are the players too young or are they just following coaches directions about hitting and hitting hard. Chizik has always preached being physical and I'm guessing fall camp has been hit, hit, and hit again. The players have just yet to find the sweet spot so to speak between being physical and smart about it.

 

[ISUFan22]

But you and others have been more than vocal in stating that you think that it might be acceptable for LJ to be suspended for the season possibly. I am just saying that he has had ONE bad PF. Iowa PF wasn't even a PF and shouldn't have been called. The first PF he ever got was questionable. And the first PF call against UNLV was HOW BAD?

This is BS for 2 reasons...

- I've said many times I feel he should miss one more game after the NCAA suspended KU game. I have also said I would not be opposed to him sitting out longer - but that's not what I think should happen. Again, putting damn words in my mouth needs to stop.

- It is not just one damn PF penalty. He got two...count it, 1...2...against UNLV. Back-to-back, to boot. One gave UNLV 1st down instead of 3rd and long.

Not once have I held the Iowa PF penalty against him. Not once. I have always said it was a debatable call. However, I have followed that up with that penalty does not help his case any.

I agree. The increased PF's that we are getting are troubling. But we are NOW playing a very aggressive Defense which is COMPLETELY different than our sit back seven yards and let them come us defense under McCarney. The result is TURNOVERS. Yes, we are very aggressive. Yes, we might get some PF's. But I was always the type of ballplayer that was very physical. I like the aggressiveness. I think it creates opportunity. Non-aggressive teams are the type of teams that get beat.

Yippie, we're aggressive! Awesome, cool, fantastic, about time.

*stands up and claps*

But...tell me how hitting a guy well after the play is over, or hitting a guy deep into the end zone - is aggressive. This, I must know. This is not a PF penalty once in a while - no one would care about that. This is a team trend of a ton of PF penalties and one guy that got 2 big, ugly ones Saturday night that were nothing shore of foolish, uncalled for and embarrassing.




If some of you would like to debate this rationally and stop putting words in my mouth (and others), we can continue discussing this.

But until then, as far as I am concerned - this discussion is over. Because it's gone way past ******* retardedness.

 

[Stormin]

This is BS for 2 reasons...

- I've said many times I feel he should miss one more game after the NCAA suspended KU game. I have also said I would not be opposed to him sitting out longer - but that's not what I think should happen. Again, putting damn words in my mouth needs to stop.

- It is not just one damn PF penalty. He got two...count it, 1...2...against UNLV. Back-to-back, to boot. One gave UNLV 1st down instead of 3rd and long.

Not once have I held the Iowa PF penalty against him. Not once. I have always said it was a debatable call. However, I have followed that up with that penalty does not help his case any.

Now, if some of you would like to debate this rationally and stop putting words in my mouth (and others), we can continue discussing this.

But until then, as far as I am concerned - this discussion is over. Because it's gone way past ******* retardedness.

Jumbopackage is ON the record for the PF penalty against LJ when we played IOWA. He criticized LJ and said that the penalty gave Iowa momentum and a First Down. NEVER MIND that the penalty should NOT have been called and that LJ forced a fumble and it should have been ISU's ball at midfield.

All I am saying is, YES. LJ made a MISTAKE. Dumb penalty. TWO PF's in ONE game. He was ejected and will sit out another game. I say LEAVE it at that. SEE what happens. Enough of the criticism for an 18 year old kid busting his *** and trying. Basically, he has made ONE bad mistake and possibly two other smaller ones as he is adapting to Major College Football.
It was a bad penalty, but in all honesty the way some of you described it I thought it would be much worse. Definite late hit. Proper call was made. But it surely was something that I had seen before.

 

[Angie]

Jumbopackage is ON the record for the PF penalty against LJ when we played IOWA. He criticized LJ and said that the penalty gave Iowa momentum and a First Down. NEVER MIND that the penalty should NOT have been called and that LJ forced a fumble and it should have been ISU's ball at midfield.

All I am saying is, YES. LJ made a MISTAKE. Dumb penalty. TWO PF's in ONE game. He was ejected and will sit out another game. I say LEAVE it at that. SEE what happens. Enough of the criticism for an 18 year old kid busting his *** and trying. Basically, he has made ONE bad mistake and possibly two other smaller ones as he is adapting to Major College Football.
It was a bad penalty, but in all honesty the way some of you described it I thought it would be much worse. Definite late hit. Proper call was made. But it surely was something that I had seen before.

...In your opinion. There was an entire thread about that a week ago, and we don't need to rehash it. Just because some people think it was questionable or the right call doesn't make it true... I'm assuming none of us were refs at that game.

I like LJ and hope he gets the PF's turned around. This is two weeks in a row we're debating about his PF's, though.

 

[ISUFan22]

But it surely was something that I had seen before.

Why does this continue to get brought up? What relevance does it have?

I've seen it before too. From programs like CFB Miami or NFL Raiders.

Again, what's the relevance/point?

 

[jumbopackage]

Jumbopackage is ON the record for the PF penalty against LJ when we played IOWA. He criticized LJ and said that the penalty gave Iowa momentum and a First Down. NEVER MIND that the penalty should NOT have been called and that LJ forced a fumble and it should have been ISU's ball at midfield.

All I am saying is, YES. LJ made a MISTAKE. Dumb penalty. TWO PF's in ONE game. He was ejected and will sit out another game. I say LEAVE it at that. SEE what happens. Enough of the criticism for an 18 year old kid busting his a** and trying. Basically, he has made ONE bad mistake and possibly two other smaller ones as he is adapting to Major College Football.
It was a bad penalty, but in all honesty the way some of you described it I thought it would be much worse. Definite late hit. Proper call was made. But it surely was something that I had seen before.

Yes, I am on the record as saying I thought the Iowa penalty was legit. ISUFan isn't. Reasonable people can disagree about things, you know.

Yes, LJ made a mistake. Nobody disagrees about that (well at least the same amount of nobody that thinks he should be kicked off the team for it). We are all just debating how "bad" the mistake is. I feel that it is far more "bad" than the "no big deal" crowd.

ISU simply can't put itsself in a position where we are giving up 70 yards per game in penalties and expect to win games. And if that means ratcheting back the aggressiveness to the point where we aren't making plays that are borderline PFs (ala the Iowa game), that's what we have to do.

You seldom hear coaches talk about just "aggressive" football. They talk about "smart, aggressive" football. We're sorely lacking the "smart" part at the moment.

 

[MontyBurns]

Here's the bottom line folks. We're #6 in the nation in penalty yardage. 70 yards/game. We're essentially handing them better field position and scoring opportunities.

And with 13 personal fouls through 4 games, 49 of those 70 yards per game are unforced mental errors.

As I've posted, the worst part is that:
(1) We've established a reputation as a dirty team that takes cheap shots,
(2) Every coach we face is aware of this and will be in the officials' ears begging for flags on every questionable play,
and
(3) Our reputation means we won't be getting the benefit of the doubt in the future.

 

[Bubbahotep]

...In your opinion. There was an entire thread about that a week ago, and we don't need to rehash it. Just because some people think it was questionable or the right call doesn't make it true... I'm assuming none of us were refs at that game.

I like LJ and hope he gets the PF's turned around. This is two weeks in a row we're debating about his PF's, though.

At least we won't be debating them after the Kansas game

 

[NobodyBeatsCy]

For those that think PF's like Saturday night are soon forgotten, check out this article from yesterday's Las Vegas ReviewJournal:

ReviewJournal.com - Sports - ED GRANEY: Picky sure, but Rebels need more than resiliency

some exerpts:

"It means being so good in the first half, the only worrisome image is if Iowa State hothead defensive back Leonard Johnson might make his way back onto the field after being ejected and begin swinging his helmet while drilling people up to the Club Level with more cheap shots."

and

"A sign things are better no matter who won Saturday night: Leonard Johnson has left town and is back in Ames, Iowa, by now.
I just hope some poor charter stewardess didn't short him any peanuts or soda on the trip home." Ed Graney

Ed Graney can be reached at 383-4618 or [email protected].

 

[ISUFan22]

Wow...harsh words.

I hope they make their way back to LJ and it motivates him to be a smarter, better football player. I'd love to learn he took those clippings (as well as some of the things said here), put 'em up in his locker and used them as motivation - in a good way.

 

[ISUFan22]

The presser starts here in a little bit, right? We should learn more about LJ's status - as Gene said in postgame that would be sorted out today.

 

[Bubbahotep]

For those that think PF's like Saturday night are soon forgotten, check out this article from yesterday's Las Vegas ReviewJournal:

ReviewJournal.com - Sports - ED GRANEY: Picky sure, but Rebels need more than resiliency

some exerpts:

"It means being so good in the first half, the only worrisome image is if Iowa State hothead defensive back Leonard Johnson might make his way back onto the field after being ejected and begin swinging his helmet while drilling people up to the Club Level with more cheap shots."

and

"A sign things are better no matter who won Saturday night: Leonard Johnson has left town and is back in Ames, Iowa, by now.
I just hope some poor charter stewardess didn't short him any peanuts or soda on the trip home." Ed Graney

Ed Graney can be reached at 383-4618 or [email protected].

90% of journalists are pukes, and he is no exception. Neither am I, but I don't live in a town full of Whores.

 

[Hilz4cy]

Not to say I agree with the hit, becasue I don't, and to be honest I was w like oh my god when it happened, as well as the others at Johnny's when it happened but with that being said it is somewhat nice to see a little attitude and gusto from our team,How long has it been since we've had ANY? Football is a sport full of hits, bad , mean hits, Are they all caught no, I'm sure most lineman get undercut pucnched etc etc every play. Disipline LJ, let him feel the consequnces of the action and move on. Again do I agree with the hit hell no, but the fire and agression behind it , when used on the feild of play. Heck ya.