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Hybrid vs Diesel

GM has talked about putting a smaller diesel in the half ton trucks, they even talked about putting on in the Colorado. I am not sure they would get that kind of mileage with all the emissions crap they have to add but I am sure it would be in the 25 mpg range.
 
Diesel is great technology, and I wish it were more available in the US. Hybrids are great for city driving, but they're not much better than all-gas powered cars for highway driving. Since it seems more people do more highway driving than city driving, diesel technology would help more people with their mileage than hybrid technology.
 
kingcy said:
That is the problem not all diesel is winterized the same. Some you have to blend on your own, some isnt at all, and other is treated. Things many poeple wont look for. No matter the engine the fuel in cold weather is still the problem, and it does take extra care and time in the winter to get it right.
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It isn't any different than someone having to use premium fuel in a turbocharged car. Or knowing not to put E-85 in your car if it doesn't support it. There's nothing magical about throwing in a bottle of additive in the winter, even if it's necessary.

bhoodjer said:
You are correct that they winterize the fuel when the temps start to get cold but you will still need to add some type of anti-gel additive to the fuel when the temps get extreme like they do here.
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Well of course. It's not like gas engines always work perfectly in the winter here either. Coolant can still freeze up. Water can still condense in the fuel line and freeze up. All mechanical things have problems at -35.

The last 10 years have been an absolute revolution in diesel engine design and efficiency. The big, loud, smoke belching diesels that most Americans know about are worlds apart from the new, clean (often cleaner than gas), quiet, efficient engines that are put in cars today.

There are good reasons they are very popular in Europe where fuel is way more expensive than it is here across the board.

A few minor nuisances under extreme conditions are no reason to ignore the technology.
 
kingcy said:
They do take more care when it is cold out. There are a lot of people that wont take the extra care to make it work in cold temps. There are others that will foget or put off the extra until it is too late. Diesels are not for everyone and when you start selling more and more small cars with diesel motors there will be people that shouldnt own them that end up owning them.
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Yep. See all the morons that roll SUVs. Same deal. They buy them because they like the ride height and because they feel safe, and then they kill themselves and their family because they drive them inappropriately and run the tire pressure too low.

Expect to see Soccer Moms and Metrosexuals everywhere suing the car manufacturer because their diesels gelled up in sub-zero weather.
 
jumbopackage said:
It isn't any different than someone having to use premium fuel in a turbocharged car. Or knowing not to put E-85 in your car if it doesn't support it. There's nothing magical about throwing in a bottle of additive in the winter, even if it's necessary.
.
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All I know is I can get diesel at 6 different stations. One of them you have to blend it yourself. Three of them it is a 50/50 blend. Two of them just treat their fuel. Its not about picking the right nozzle its about knowing what is coming out of that nozzle.
 
we bought an 08 camry hybrid brand new in late 2007. Have loved it so far and have had zero problems with it for the 25K miles we've put on. The hybrid works wellf for us b/c we're commuting down to DSM every day from Ankeny and probably 80% of our miles are city. When we travel on the highway it really isn't much if any better than a 4cylinder camry but, like I said, most of our driving is city.

We also got it before the federal tax credit for camry hybrid purchases expired and the state also has a tax credit for buying a hubrid new. According to our little tank avg. screen we get about 39mpg in the warm weather and about 35mpg in the cold weather - again, most of it is city driving, it would probably be lower if we traveled outside central Iowa much. .
 
Cy Heavy said:
We also got it before the federal tax credit for camry hybrid purchases expired and the state also has a tax credit for buying a hubrid new. According to our little tank avg. screen we get about 39mpg in the warm weather and about 35mpg in the cold weather - again, most of it is city driving, it would probably be lower if we traveled outside central Iowa much. .
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I guess this is why I don't understand the hybrid craze. My Jetta TDI gets 35 mpg around town and 45 mpg on the highway.

If I had confidence that Ford was serious about actually bringing that F-150 diesel to market, I'd sell my F-250 now while the resale is still good and pick up an F-150 diesel in the fall...
 
jbhtexas said:
I guess this is why I don't understand the hybrid craze. My Jetta TDI gets 35 mpg around town and 45 mpg on the highway...
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Someone with a Geo Metro can probably say the same thing about the Jetti TDI. It can get better gas mileage than the TDI and pay less per gallon.
 
jumbopackage said:
And those are all common rail diesel engines I'm sure, that are akin to the advanced diesels in use in Europe.

If you've never seen an advanced, modern automotive diesel engine (and I can assure you there isn't one in any of your tractors, combines, or semi trucks), you have no idea what you're talking about.
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jumbo,

The diesel engines in John Deere farm equipment has been tier III compliant for 4-5 years. Common rail fuel delivery has been around for awhile in the ag sector.

I had an 03 Dodge w/ a Cummins engine and rarely blended the fuel. I treated the fuel when it was cold and that was it.
 
dmclone said:
Someone with a Geo Metro can probably say the same thing about the Jetti TDI. It can get better gas mileage than the TDI and pay less per gallon.
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The Geo metro doesn't get appreciably better mileage than the TDI (at least the model I have). And then, there's the whole apples/oranges thing when comparing a Geo Metro to a Jetta. At least the Camry and Jetta are similar cars...
 
I do think Diesel is managable in cold weather. Plenty of people do so now. Will people forget and have things jell up? Sure, but I bet it will only happen a time or two and they'll learn their lesson.
 
dmclone said:
Someone with a Geo Metro can probably say the same thing about the Jetti TDI. It can get better gas mileage than the TDI and pay less per gallon.
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Comparing a Geo Metro to a Jetta TDI is like comparing a Valiant to a Camry. If the Metro were built today, it would be pretty much like the Aveo, with similar fuel economy. Cars have gotten much heavier (and safer) over the last 20 years. It'd be easy to build a death trap that got great fuel economy. It's hard to build a car you can actually sell in the US that gets great fuel economy.

hfour said:
jumbo,

The diesel engines in John Deere farm equipment has been tier III compliant for 4-5 years. Common rail fuel delivery has been around for awhile in the ag sector.

I had an 03 Dodge w/ a Cummins engine and rarely blended the fuel. I treated the fuel when it was cold and that was it.
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Tier III off-road standards are significantly less strict than even the most lax on-road Tier II standards.
 
jbhtexas said:
The Geo metro doesn't get appreciably better mileage than the TDI (at least the model I have). And then, there's the whole apples/oranges thing when comparing a Geo Metro to a Jetta. At least the Camry and Jetta are similar cars...
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I see the Camry as a bigger car than the Jetta. I think the Passat is similar in size to a Camry. I sat in a 2009 Jetta, which I thought was very nice and it seemed similar in size to a Corrola but price wise it was similar to a Camry.

Isn't deisel like .30 more per gallon?

Just a an example

My Accord get's about 30 mpg
12,000 miles per year
1.70 gallon
$680/year fuel costs

Jetta TDI about 40 mpg
12,000 miles per year
$2 gallon
$600/year fuel costs

So $80/year savings. How much more does a TDI cost more than a petrol Jetta? Probably a couple thousand.

Once again, nothing against a TDI but if I was in the used car market I'd be inclined to just go for a standard non-hybrid or diesel vehicle.
 
dmclone said:
My Accord get's about 30 mpg
12,000 miles per year
1.70 gallon
$680/year fuel costs

Jetta TDI about 40 mpg
12,000 miles per year
$2 gallon
$600/year fuel costs
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The TDI is also using significantly less fuel to cover the same miles, which has positive ramifications beyond just the initial fuel cost.
 
jbhtexas said:
The TDI is also using significantly less fuel to cover the same miles, which has positive ramifications beyond just the initial fuel cost.
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Lost me there?:confused: What postive ramifications other than $ savings?

A diesel engine will run much longer than a gas without repair work. 300,000 miles pretty easy.
 
jbhtexas said:
The TDI is also using significantly less fuel to cover the same miles, which has positive ramifications beyond just the initial fuel cost.
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My Accord get's about 30 mpg
12,000 miles per year
1.70 gallon
$680/year fuel costs
400 gallons used

Jetta TDI about 40 mpg
12,000 miles per year
$2 gallon
$600/year fuel costs
300 gallons used

I guess I don't understand any other benefit besides not having to stop for gas as much.

I just saw your post and you're right that is another advantage.
 
jbhtexas said:
Big picture things, like reducing dependence on our Saudi "friends", less emissions per mile traveled, ability to burn bio fuels that are easier to produce than Ethanol, etc.
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Good points. I think I read that Diesel burns a lot less CO2 and with the cap and trade credits, that could become a big issue as it's a green house gas.
 
I thought I read somewhere that VW doesn't recommend bio-fuels and they will void your warranty if you use them. Is this true? I laso read somewhere that Iowa is thinking about switching to 100% bio-fuels.

I just thought of another advantage. The government is offering a rebate on all diesels.
 
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