Huge win! That was fun...

[clone52]

Took the gf's son to his first game at Hilton. Other than (as luck would have it) having the most obnoxious Baylor fans (college students) next to us (literally 4 of the 15-20 in the building and most of those were behind their bench) it was a great day.

There are several things that stuck out to me and the first has to be the performance of Caleb Grill. The tenacity and effort he showed on the boards was refreshing and something I hope will become more pervasive across the team. A big complaint thus far has been the porous effort, awareness, and mindset the team (as a whole) have displayed in that aspect of the game. A large part of the Uconn and Iowa futilities were the ease with which both were able to corral offensive boards, with many occurring when we had a 3 or 4 to 1 proximity advantage. Too often guys lack the anticipation and tenacity to corral easily reachable balls. While length and athleticism can help, rebounding is often a byproduct of awareness and desire, something Grill displayed the entire game. That's probably something that probably escaped most non-Cyclone fans' eye.

Then there is Lipsey. His ability to recognize when to drive, pass, change speed/tempo, and shield the ball is wise beyond his years. As most have noticed, he's probably our best and most indispensable player to start the year. It's refreshing to have a PG that can drive the lane or run a fast break and not get blocked (or blowo a layup) because he understands angles and the importance of shielding the ball from defenders.

I was also extremely impressed with Tre King's ability to guard/defend the entire floor. He has the body and size to defend down low but also has the athleticism and fundamentals to guard the perimeter. This was on full display when he popped out to guard Flagler near the top of the key. A very fundamental player and one that should get more minutes at the expense of...

...Robert Jones. He is absolutely useless and struggles in every facet of the game. He has difficulty handling pinpoint passes. He struggles to recognize offensive opportunities and convert when he does take them. He is an atrocious rebounder for his size. He makes a ton of mistakes and commits silly fouls. He simply should not be getting 15 minutes per game unless it's absolutely necessary (foul trouble). Yesterday, it wasn't.

At times I'm a little perplexed at how little we use or (in some cases) how quickly we give up on Osun and running pick and roll through Lipsey. There was one game it was highly effective, one got into foul trouble, then we quick using it the rest of the game. Yesterday we really didn't see it run at all. Given Osun's ability to screen and peel and Lipsey's ability to deliver, I think it's a facet we should be developing a little more, especially given our penchant (not yesterday) for struggling for offensive sustainability.

Overall it was a great win, with the team playing about as well as one could hope (especially in the 2nd half). Super fun game to be at.

Do you realize how many of those Grill rebounds were available because Jones and Osun were keeping Thamba off the boards? Jones is also almost always in the right place defensively and his physical presence leads to other players getting some steals.

Sure, he looked like me playing middle school basketball a lot of times offensively on Saturday, but saying he is useless is a very surface based analysis.

We have depth this year and if he was as bad as you think, he wouldn't be playing. There is no reason for our coaching staff to put him out there if that was the case. It's not like he is some type of high end prospect that they are hoping to have a light bulb click on sometime.

 

[Frak]

I feel like some are expecting too much from Jones. He’s never going to be a plus player offensively or on the boards.

 

[cyclones500]

I have almost no complaint about Jones' contribution. Especially comparing it to last season. He misses some bunnies, yes, but he has enough productivity that he's more than a "minutes-eater" for opponents.

 

[madguy30]

Lipsey's bball IQ is about 250. He has just looked better and better as he adjusts to the level of play.

I think because he isnt 6'5", doesnt have a 45" vertical or 8ft wingspan, people think he isnt athletic. But his vision, body control, balance, quickness - is fantastic. He finishes around the rim under, over, and thru much bigger and more "athletic" players. Does all that remind you of anyone?

Love the way ISU plays but holy cow is it weird to be estatic when a player finishes at the rim.

I liked Hunter and still miss his length at the perimeter (Lipsey is freaking quick with the hands and holds his own) but he struggled at the rim.

 

[TClone99]

I said a few games in that Lipsey is our best player and he is. It’s not really that close. Great handle, great hesitation, great finishing in the lane. If he can develop a floater or tear drop and hit a set 3 when teams are sagging, he’s going to be an all timer here. It’s awesome to have a FR PG that they can build around the next 3 years.

Lipsey was a member of the 2019 U16 USA National Team. I think that experience was invaluable. He just sees the game so well and understands how effective changing speeds is out there.

 

[CycloneErik]

I feel like some are expecting too much from Jones. He’s never going to be a plus player offensively or on the boards.

I only expect him to be Wilt. Nothing too fancy.

 

[cyfanatic13]

Calling Jones "useless" is unfair to him and just a stupid take. However, I do think his minutes could and should start to dwindle a little bit now that we're getting into conference play. He's at 18 right now and I wouldn't mind if that got cut to 10 and just have him play with his hair on fire for those 10 mins. Great effort guy but he is very limited offensively on an already offensively limited team

 

[bosco]

Thamba seemed like a beast 2 years ago but last year and this year he just doesn't seem as impactful.

When they announced his name in the starting lineup wife and I both looked at each other and simultaneously said he's still playing? He gets the Perry Ellis award.

 

[Marcelason78]

Got us to #25 in the AP.

 

[madguy30]

Do you realize how many of those Grill rebounds were available because Jones and Osun were keeping Thamba off the boards? Jones is also almost always in the right place defensively and his physical presence leads to other players getting some steals.

Sure, he looked like me playing middle school basketball a lot of times offensively on Saturday, but saying he is useless is a very surface based analysis.

We have depth this year and if he was as bad as you think, he wouldn't be playing. There is no reason for our coaching staff to put him out there if that was the case. It's not like he is some type of high end prospect that they are hoping to have a light bulb click on sometime.

It's almost like more goes into it than dribbling the ball to the hoop.

Like when people said ISU players were just standing there vs. UNC when they were boxing out as someone else got a rebound.

I really don't know what people are watching.

 

[madguy30]

Got us to #25 in the AP.

Cool.

Hovering around the top 25 for the next two months would mean good things are happening.

 

[Marcelason78]

Cool.

Hovering around the top 25 for the next two months would mean good things are happening.

Some of these voters though…. Vitale had us in last week. We beat #12 and he votes us out.

 

[bosco]

One of the things I saw yesterday was what seemed to be a high focus from our big men to box out under the basket to open up the area for our guards to come in and snag those rebounds.

Yes I saw this too. King did a good job of it.

 

[bosco]

Calling Jones "useless" is unfair to him and just a stupid take. However, I do think his minutes could and should start to dwindle a little bit now that we're getting into conference play. He's at 18 right now and I wouldn't mind if that got cut to 10 and just have him play with his hair on fire for those 10 mins. Great effort guy but he is very limited offensively on an already offensively limited team

Jones needs to slow down a bit when he has the ball and not to force the ball every time he has it in the block. He's greatest asset is his tenacity on the defensive end. Yes he's limited but you can see the growing frustration of opposing bigs as the game goes on. So much so it starts to effect their performance.

 

[ZRF]

ZRF iirc can't help but rip on a player like there's some sort of personal vendetta there.

Like it's not just that the player had a bad game like every single player ever has, they're 'useless' when reality is the opposite.

And then these same folks who just say that about a player never have an answer to who should take their place.

He's mostly a minutes eater but isn't really adept in any one area. At times he can display some post moves but he often turns the ball over, misses an opportunity, or misses an awkward shot when he tries. For his size (height) he is a poor rebounder and finisher around the rim. He plays adequate to good defense on direct post ups but lacks awareness to see cutters and provide help-side defense. He can run the floor well but that asset is often negated by his poor finishing ability.

At this point I think I've seen enough to surmise our best lineups are without Jones, especially with the addition of Tre King. There is no reason (other than foul trouble which has been problematic at times) for Osun to only play 16 minutes a game. He's better in almost every facet of the game and provides a lot of potential for easy pick and roll buckets with Lipsey, which is vital for a team that struggles to score. I also think that, at least against most teams, that going small with a guard centric lineup is better than having Jones on the floor. Both Ward, Watson, and King (along with increased minutes from Osun) are more effective lineup options.

I'm not even mad at Jones, he is who he is. It was mindboggling to see Jones get 15 minutes considering how much he was struggling. Worst player on the floor for us by a country mile.

 

[CychiatricWard]

Lipsey's bball IQ is about 250. He has just looked better and better as he adjusts to the level of play.

I think because he isnt 6'5", doesnt have a 45" vertical or 8ft wingspan, people think he isnt athletic. But his vision, body control, balance, quickness - is fantastic. He finishes around the rim under, over, and thru much bigger and more "athletic" players. Does all that remind you of anyone?

I said this in another thread I think, but I hate how most people use the term athletic. Athletic isn’t just people who can run fast or jump high. Guys like George Niang, while not explosive, are still very athletic. To be able to use your body to your advantage is still athletic. Jokic is an example, or Doncic is the same thing.

 

[isufbcurt]

He's mostly a minutes eater but isn't really adept in any one area. At times he can display some post moves but he often turns the ball over, misses an opportunity, or misses an awkward shot when he tries. For his size (height) he is a poor rebounder and finisher around the rim. He plays adequate to good defense on direct post ups but lacks awareness to see cutters and provide help-side defense. He can run the floor well but that asset is often negated by his poor finishing ability.

At this point I think I've seen enough to surmise our best lineups are without Jones, especially with the addition of Tre King. There is no reason (other than foul trouble which has been problematic at times) for Osun to only play 16 minutes a game. He's better in almost every facet of the game and provides a lot of potential for easy pick and roll buckets with Lipsey, which is vital for a team that struggles to score. I also think that, at least against most teams, that going small with a guard centric lineup is better than having Jones on the floor. Both Ward, Watson, and King (along with increased minutes from Osun) are more effective lineup options.

I'm not even mad at Jones, he is who he is. It was mindboggling to see Jones get 15 minutes considering how much he was struggling. Worst player on the floor for us by a country mile.

Well the actual coach of ISU disagrees with you and sees value in Bob's game.

 

[CychiatricWard]

Love the way ISU plays but holy cow is it weird to be estatic when a player finishes at the rim.

I liked Hunter and still miss his length at the perimeter (Lipsey is freaking quick with the hands and holds his own) but he struggled at the rim.

You miss his length? Hunter is smaller than Lipsey! Lol

 

[ZRF]

ZRF iirc can't help but rip on a player like there's some sort of personal vendetta there.

Like it's not just that the player had a bad game like every single player ever has, they're 'useless' when reality is the opposite.

And then these same folks who just say that about a player never have an answer to who should take their place.

King and Osun should have increased minutes (the former seems to be slowly happening giving the recent eligibility). Early on, King has show the ability to guard almost every position on the floor. You can have him defend both the post and perimeter defensively, and his offensive potential is far greater than that of Jones.

This was admittedly a bad game for Jones, worse than most. With that said the combination of poor hands and poor decision making on the offensive end often negate the positives that he brings. I've seen too many games similar to this where is a non-factor or a detriment when on the floor. His free throw shooting also makes him a liability late in games.

 

[Kaner04]

You miss his length? Hunter is smaller than Lipsey! Lol

Exactly lol. Hunter is one inch shorter and I don’t remember him having any longer arms than Tamin.