**** Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

[CycloneErik]

When the details are known (and it seems like they will be), I predict that Bubu admitted to doing plenty wrong that normal people (and Leath) would consider to be violations of the Student Code. I know the judge overturned his decision and was critical of Leath's process, but I think lots of students violate the Student Code without being prosecuted. I also predict that we will find out that there were others who were advocating for the victim in a manner that targeted Bubu.

I don't think either of those would be too surprising. I also don't think anyone will change their mind no matter the evidence at that point. People will pick the part they support and drag this thing on forever.


If this were in the past (further back), it would be a fascinating story filled with odd twists and turns. Too bad it's here and now, I guess.

 

[cloneswereall]

I have no problem with him punishing an athlete including Bubu if it was appealed to him. I think taking away extracurriculars is a good punishment as well. That said Leath wanted to make athletics decisions when that isn't what his job is.

I don't know I guess. I would assume he is but I don't see how that is relevant as I think it was clearly meant for athletics.

Do you even get what I'm saying. Yes he had to decide on something but he specifically singled out athletics. Why can Bubu play intramurals and do other things?

So, you admit that you don't know if he was banned from all extracurriculars, which is an alright decision by Leath according to you if he was banned from all extracurriculars and not just athletics, but you continue to claim he was okayed to play in intramurals with no evidence that he was in the next post. Got it. Solid argumentative narration you have there. I don't see a single flaw.

 

[alarson]

If both parties were black out drunk, why aren't we talking about the real alcohol problems that college students have? That would seem a better discussion than this ongoing he-said-she-said.

Yeah, it seems like when it should be 'innocent until proven guilty' if both were blackout drunk does either of them have any credibility at all here? The important part of that though is that since there's no credibility there's almost no story here given its all he said she said.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

The recommendation passed down to Leath was to expel Bubu, but he chose not to as the kid was a semester and a half away from graduating, and expulsion would of hurt the kids future. Kicking him off the basketball team does not hurt his future.

Have you heard of this recommendation any place else besides this "anonymous letter"?

The reason President Leath became involved was because the administrative judge ruled that the arguments presented in the case and/or evidence and interviews with the parties involved were insufficient to charge Bubu with conduct violations. At what point did this recommendation to expel Bubu cross the president's desk?

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Just because the charges were dropped does not mean "everything was found to be in favor of Bubu". It just means that Bubu's defense was able to create reasonable doubt in a jury's mind, and the County Attorney decided it was not worth the time/money to continue to prosecute. You're innocent until proven guilty, but just because you cant prove guilt does not mean you did not commit the crime.

Also, what extra curricular activities was Bubu involved in and how do you know those were not taken away?

The defense did not create reasonable doubt with the jury because there was no jury. There also was no trial. Prosecution determined that evidence had been falsified and the charges were dropped before the case ever came to trial. If you're going to argue "how" things happened, it would help to know "what" happened.

As for the rest of it "being in Bubu's favor", well - having the charges dropped was better for him than it was for the accuser. Then the administrative judge cleared him...another decision that benefited Bubu.

When that decision was appealed to President Leath, he ruled against Bubu and the BofR rubberstamped that decision - both negatives on the talley sheet.

However, Bubu's appeal for a temporary stay was granted and he was allowed back on the team until his appeal could be heard (next month, I think), so that ruling could be seen as being in his favor although he never played.

When ISU's legal team appealed the judge's stay they lost. When they appealed that to the SCOI, they declined to hear the appeal. Two more positive tics on the talley for Bubu.

So yes, I think you could say that a lot of things have been ruled in Bubu's favor...primarily the opinions rendered by presumably impartial prosecutors & judges (ie: people who had no reason to rule in a manner that would be to ISU's greatest benefit).

 

[Incyte]

Yeah, it seems like when it should be 'innocent until proven guilty' if both were blackout drunk does either of them have any credibility at all here? The important part of that though is that since there's no credibility there's almost no story here given its all he said she said.

He said/she said? Not entirely. There was medical evidence indicating the activity was not consensual.

 

[chuckd4735]

The defense did not create reasonable doubt with the jury because there was no jury. There also was no trial. Prosecution determined that evidence had been falsified and the charges were dropped before the case ever came to trial. If you're going to argue "how" things happened, it would help to know "what" happened.

As for the rest of it "being in Bubu's favor", well - having the charges dropped was better for him than it was for the accuser. Then the administrative judge cleared him...another decision that benefited Bubu.

When that decision was appealed to President Leath, he ruled against Bubu and the BofR rubberstamped that decision - both negatives on the talley sheet.

However, Bubu's appeal for a temporary stay was granted and he was allowed back on the team until his appeal could be heard (next month, I think), so that ruling could be seen as being in his favor although he never played.

When ISU's legal team appealed the judge's stay they lost. When they appealed that to the SCOI, they declined to hear the appeal. Two more positive tics on the talley for Bubu.

So yes, I think you could say that a lot of things have been ruled in Bubu's favor...primarily the opinions rendered by presumably impartial prosecutors & judges (ie: people who had no reason to rule in a manner that would be to ISU's greatest benefit).

I meant that the reason Holmes dismissed the charges was because the defense would be able to create reasonable doubt if it went to trial. I'm well aware it never went to trial.

And if you read through all the stuff the op posted last night, you'll see that he is defending Bubu nearly to the point of saying he didn't do anything wrong that night since everything has been found in his favor, and my post was refuting that line of thought .

 

[ImJustKCClone]

He said/she said? Not entirely. There was medical evidence indicating the activity was not consensual.

Do you have a source to cite to back up this claim?

 

[Incyte]

Do you have a source to cite to back up this claim?

Did you even read the linked letter?

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Did you even read the linked letter?

Yes, I did. And at this point, it doesn't appear that he has made any effort to determine the authenticity of this "smoking gun" document, or the info it contained...one of the first rules of reporting. What we currently have is an anonymous report from which he has extracted teasers to publish in an opinion piece. So let's try this again.

Do you have any credible sources to back up this claim?

 

[Wesley]

Did you even read the linked letter?

Can you believe the linked letter?

 

[Incyte]

Yes, I did. And at this point, it doesn't appear that he has made any effort to determine the authenticity of this "smoking gun" document, or the info it contained...one of the first rules of reporting. What we currently have is an anonymous report from which he has extracted teasers to publish in an opinion piece. So let's try this again.

Do you have any credible sources to back up this claim?

Looks like tin-foil hat lady showed up. If you want to believe there is someone fabricating the report of the letter or that a retired ISU prof is making things up, go ahead. I can't force you to be rationale.

The letter certainly explains how Leath could have came down on the other side of the issue.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Describing someone as wearing a tin-foil hat usually depicts a person who is willing to believe anything that is put in front of them.

I wonder which of the two of us that term describes?

 

[Rabbuk]

Tin foil hat more means they are willing to accept fringe theories like the holocaust didn't happen or we didn't land on the moon. Not the quantity of theories one accepts.

 

[chuckd4735]

Yes, I did. And at this point, it doesn't appear that he has made any effort to determine the authenticity of this "smoking gun" document, or the info it contained...one of the first rules of reporting. What we currently have is an anonymous report from which he has extracted teasers to publish in an opinion piece. So let's try this again.

Do you have any credible sources to back up this claim?

It not the first time this "news" has come out.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Definitions of terms can morph between regions and generations. Your definition is also accurate.

Consider this...one of us is willing to bite, hook line & sinker, on an opinion piece that cites a report delivered to a party totally uninvolved (the writer is neither a credentialed reporter or a public official in law enforcement or the judicial process). Prior to writing this opinion piece, the author cites no efforts on his part to verify the anonymous information in his hands. Bits and pieces of this "report" are leaked as teasers of the smoking gun evidence to be revealed at a future time.

One of us wants proof.

 

[CHAKAZULU]

He said/she said? Not entirely. There was medical evidence indicating the activity was not consensual.

that medical evidence was not enough to convince the administrative judge that Bubu was guilty of student misconduct. After all, Leath made his determination based on the findings of that judge.

 

[Dandy]

Bubu is like a crappy ex-girlfriend that you will never ever see again but you can't stop talking to your friends about her.

He's gone. He's at Colorado State now. He didn't play a single second at ISU last year. Move on!

 

[CYKOFAN]

Then maybe bubus lawyer is the **** for agreeing to the time leath had put forward. Common sense goes a long ways.

The charges had been dropped by the county attorney, the ALJ had ruled the evidence wasn't sufficient to show a student code violation, and BuBu had already played the last half of his junior season. Why would the attorney, Fred, or anybody else think Leath would reverse the decision when he was operating with the same evidence that the ALJ had? I'm sure the attorney and Fred were as shocked as everybody else when Leath reversed the decision several months later. And anybody that thinks Fred wouldn't like to have had another contributor from the bench last year, whether it was BuBu or another scholarship player Fred may have picked up, doesn't know much about basketball coaches. Never met a coach yet that said he had too much depth, and we certainly didn't last year.

 

[Incyte]

that medical evidence was not enough to convince the administrative judge that Bubu was guilty of student misconduct. After all, Leath made his determination based on the findings of that judge.

The findings of fact, yes. The conclusions of law, no.