No response for the rest of my post Cycloneworld? Haha, you just picked out the weakest link of that post! C'mon! I want a challenge here!
Good Lord
- Thread starter Cyclone62
- Start date
I guess somebody could have taken it out of context and embellished, but you can't prove that any more than you can prove that Noah's story really did happen. Tracking down the person that started your "embellishment" would prove even more difficult than finding the Ark. What it comes down to is that you are going to believe what you believe. I for one think there are a billion and one holes to all kinds of scientific theory, and especially evolution. Life is something so wonderful and complex that the only way you can reasonably explain it is through faith. I guess to me if you are going to have to piece together holes in science and have "leaps of faith" to have it make sense, then it's no different than me believing that God created the universe and everything in it.
On your first point, marriage is an institution that was not created by the government, but by religion. I agree that it is virtually impossible to completely separate our government from religious values, as the foundation of our government is based on values whose origins come from Christianity and religion. Our "inalienable rights" were not granted to us by our government, they were granted to us by God. That why they "hold these truthes to be self evident".......they weren't creating these rights, merely recognizing them.
On your second point, a very interesting book on these subjects is "The language of God", written by the scientist who headed up the Human Genome project. Basically, the room for a belief in God within the context of proven scientific facts. Darwinism does not come real close to explaining everything either. I am more in the intelligent design school of thought. I don't have a problem with schools relegating creationism or intelligent design to religious studies.
Anyone else think it's possible to believe that God created the universe and everything in it, and evolution, at the same time? Perhaps God created everything, but that doesn't really discount evolution. I've seen pictures of a fish in my HS biology class that grew legs so it could survive out of water when the water levels were too low. Sounds like the fish evolved in order to survive. But I still think God created the original fish to begin with - and gave animals the ability to evolve when necessary - as this fish did.
Since you asked...:biggrin9gp:
The church holds marriages sacred. I'm guessing that would be drastically diminished if two men could marry. Also, at least to me, marriages are sacred....which is why I would never get involved with a married woman. If an attractive woman came up to you at a bar and started talking to you, you asked if she was married, she says yes...most people will back off. The respect for the term "marriage" is held in high regard. Now suppose the "marriage" rate is much higher with people being married soley for financial gain. Under the same circumstance at the bar, what if a "married" woman came up to you but she was married to her best friend for the tax benefits but she was heterosexual...what what would you do then? That's severe diminishment of the term marriage.
When would things stop...suppose I love my dog and my dog loves me? Why can't we get married? Everyone else can.
Exactly how I feel. IMO, God didn't create 350,000 species of beetles...he didn't create all types of animals, but he put the framework in place for them to be here.
You're quoting a letter from Paul to Timothy. Ok, so Paul believes the scriptures were inspired by God. I can find people that say it wasn't. That proves nothing.
Plus I'm sure the Gospels and Paul's letters were "inspired" by God, but that doesn't make them God's literal words.
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As stated by someone else earlier - a dog can't consent. People can. Big difference.
Good point. Because the world is in this perfectly delicate balance, it seems illogical to just count it all to chance. The human body is so complex and it designed so wonderfully that it's difficult for me to think it just happened by chance. The earth itself is another great example of this. The way our solar system is set up is perfect. If we were closer to the sun we would burn up, further away and it's too cold. If the moon were closer to the earth the tides would cover the surface of the earth twice a day. There are countless ways in which this delicate balance we have is set up perfectly and I just can't say, "wow, im so glad we randomly live in this perfect world in these randomly designed bodies! we sure have it lucky!"
I personally don't think luck or chance have anything to do with it. I worked as a youth pastor for 2 years while at ISU and had people make comments to me like, "well that's a pretty big prayer!" or something to that effect. And I would reply, "Well I've got a pretty big God." The bible says he holds the universe in the breadth of his hand(distance when your hand is outstretched between the end of your thumb and end of pinky finger).
I have a much easier time believing that God created everything, than it all just happening randomly by chance.
I'm only talking about state-sanctioned marriages. A church has the right to deny a couple that they do not think God doesn't want to get married. Also, just the fact that divorce rates continue to rise implies that the sanctity of marriage is going on the wayside as of late. Even if you hold marriage in such a high regard, many people are starting to say "I'm unhappy with this person; I'm getting a divorce." However, I don't believe that the people that want this changed the most are the ones who would take advantage of the system. If, as you say, heterosexuals take advantage of the new "marriage laws," I'd also bet money that they'd take advantage of them as they stand now, just because they can get a divorce when they "really" want to get married.
Also, the last comment, for the last time, the dog can't consent to a marriage, nor can it sign the legal papers. You have to take into account the HUMAN RELATION part of all this. I'm not going to fight for a right to marry a cow just because they aren't smart enough to know better than to love me.
I really don't think that should come as a surprise. Most people are somewhere in the middle. Right now the most vocal people are the extremists on either side, and open, honest and intelligent discussion is somehow taboo.
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Yes. I've never understood why some Christians are threatened by evolution. If anything it reinforces the Genesis story. First the Earth was dark and barren. Then there was light as the Earth began revolving around the sun. Then came the plants. Then came the ocean creatures. Then came the land animals. Then came humans. That's exactly how it's described in Genesis.
Brittany Spears and Jennifer Lopez have done more to erode the sanctity of marriage than all of the same sex unions on earth could ever do.
My thoughts exactly Shakes. "Oh, I'm drunk and in Las Vegas. Let's get married for ****s and giggles!" :
ivorce in the morning:: It's becoming too common to see the D-word.
ivorce in the morning:: It's becoming too common to see the D-word.
Marriage will not be eroded by same sex couples. It can't be eroded further! People get married because they love eachother, same sex or not makes no difference here. as for getting married for financial gain...not gonna happen in a way that is differnet than it is now. Check the numbers on that the only increase would be % of population that is homosexual. Not to mention the fact that they are already paying for these benefits if they are productive members of society. Most reputable companies that offer benefits already have some considerations for "Domestic Partners." The business world already sees the writing on the wall and is taking care of it's own by giving earned benefits to those who deserve them, and thier partners. Our country will do the same someday.
I would like to address this argument as well as others I noticed in this thread.
The reason most Christians are threatened by evolution is because it attempts to explain away God. The reason Darwin set out to propose and prove his theory of evolution is that he could not tolerate the thought of unsaved souls existing in hell (literally "apart from God") for eternity. It is because of this reasoning that he rejected God and developed his theory. Evolustionists today discount that there is any God and actually have developed evolution into their own 'naturalist/humanist religion. Additionally, evolutionists also frequently tout their theory as 'fact'. Evolution has never been observed or recreated in the labratory, therefore it is not fact. As far as the fossil record showing the evidence for evolution, this is also a very skewed view. Show me today where fossils are being formed. The great majority of fossils were likely formed during the flood of Noah (it takes immense pressure to turn animal remains to fossils - and the flood would have provided this - there have been no other major flood catastrophies to give us the fossil record we now have throughout the entire world).
As to the arguments that the flood of Noah's time is nothing more than man's exaggeration I have this to add. Most ancient civilization's have some record of a worldwide flood in their histories. There was an argument posed earlier that there is not enough water in the world to cover the entire earth, which is untrue. There is evidence that prior to the flood of Noah, the landscape of the earth was much different. There we not the mountains we see today and the voids that hold the water underground were much smaller. There is also evidence that there was a vapor canopy that covered the earth (which would account for the extreme lifespans in early Genesis).
The final thing I would address in this post is the arument that the Bible is man's word and has been changed/altered as to be indistinguishable from its original form. This is absolute fallacy. The Bible is God's word written through man (how else would God portray his word?). The Bible is a document containing 66 chapters written by as many as 40 authors over the course of 1500 years, yet it is consistent from beginning to end. No other historical document can claim this. Additionally, nothing ever discovered in archeology has proven any part of the Bible false and most prove it to be completely accurate. As far as its history, the very early part of Genesis was oral tradition written in song/poetry form so as to be passed down completely and accurately. These were then written very early in human history (certainly by the time of Abraham and likely earlier) and Moses compiled them into the first five books of the Bible. As documents were worn, they would be copied and passed on. As far as the many translations we have today, and I agree there are many, we actually have the Bible in it's orignal form to a 99% accuracy and most errors are minute (spellings and such) and none would change major scriptural doctrine. The reasons for the many translations is that there are findings of earlier and earlier transcripts and it is impossible to translate from one language to another word for word and keep original meaning. Thus it does require one to look at several translations for the most difficult passages.
As for the homosexuality issue, it is listed in both the new and old testament as a sin. If someone is born with a homosexual tendency, it does not mean that it is not a sin (if someone is born with a tendency to be an alcoholic or abuse their spouse or children, does that free them from that sin?)
