Ethanol is a joke!

[BigBake]

Feel free to check my math...

If I take a 25% mileage my mpg will go from 15 -> 11.25.

Assuming I drive 1000 miles in a week I'll use 66 gals of reg or 88 gal of E 85.

At 3.79 for Reg and 2.79 for E85 I'm still coming out ahead. 250.14 total for Reg and 245.52 for E85. Add to that the knowledge that my money didn't go to some ________ over in the middle east and I'm a happy American.

And for the sake of arguement I notice NO discernable difference in engine performance.

 

[Wildcyd]

Big oil is making the most money off of ethanol right now. All of the retailers that you buy your gasoline (blended or unblended) from. On average, they know that the average consumer will buy the cheapest fuel at the pump. If E10 is cheaper than 87 octane, 90% of their sales will be E10. Just has to be cheaper. The 10 cents per gallon is a no brainer to the average consumer so there's no need to make an E10 blend even less expensive at the retail level.

What most don't know is wholesale E100 sold today for $2.50 in Chicago...cheaper than that in IA. RBOB (gasoline) sold for over $3.40 today in Chicago. That's a $.90/gallon spread before the blenders credit. Add the $.51/gallon blenders credit and the cash or real spread at the wholesale level gas vs ethanol is $1.41/gallon.

We, the consumer, get a $.10 spread at the retail level while the integrated refiners (BP, Conoco, Shell, etc) pocket the difference.

Farmers are not making the big bucks off of ethanol right now. Big oil is getting fatter by not passing on the economics to the consumer.

If you run the averages on the numbers above, the consumer is missing out on 5-10 cents of additional true savings due to ethanol. That also equates to $7.5-15 billilon dollars the refiners are potentially pocketing on an annualized basis due to ethanol blending in the US. That's some big numbers folks that stays in Houston and doesn't make it back to the average consumer.

 

[jbhtexas]

People need to start buying diesel vehicles and making their own biodiesel. Several places sell self-contained biodiesel production kits. Neighborhoods could go together to spread the capital costs around. Buy the feed stock directly from the farmers, and keep the middle man (i.e. the oil companies) completely out of the picture.

I know we have some folks who post here living in Europe. The Euros are big into making biodiesel. It works for them. They also have a much greater selection of diesel vehicles to choose from than we do here.

 

[Phaedrus]

Biodiesel is a great thing, especially where it can be locally produced.... Until it gets below 30 degrees F, that is.

You gotta have a way to keep that stuff warm, from the tank to the engine, if you want to actually use it in winter time. And in Iowa, when it hits -30 F, ANY gap in the line will allow it to gel solid.

In addition, you still need diesel to get it started. A priming tank is necessary in most climates.

 

[Cy Hard]

Biodiesel is a great thing, especially where it can be locally produced.... Until it gets below 30 degrees F, that is.

You gotta have a way to keep that stuff warm, from the tank to the engine, if you want to actually use it in winter time. And in Iowa, when it hits -30 F, ANY gap in the line will allow it to gel solid.

In addition, you still need diesel to get it started. A priming tank is necessary in most climates.

Well if they can figure out a way to heat and cool my gap in my car seat, then they can figure out a way to heat or cool the tank and line on my car.:biggrin:

 

[jbhtexas]

Biodiesel is a great thing, especially where it can be locally produced.... Until it gets below 30 degrees F, that is.

There are a number of additives, made by Stanadyne and other companies, that can drop the pour point of biodiesel by 40F or more.

"We can do it. We have the technology"...

 

[usedcarguy]

<<<If you run the averages on the numbers above, the consumer is missing out on 5-10 cents of additional true savings due to ethanol. That also equates to $7.5-15 billilon dollars the refiners are potentially pocketing on an annualized basis due to ethanol blending in the US. That's some big numbers folks that stays in Houston and doesn't make it back to the average consumer.>>>

But the "good" news is that the Feds are socking them a whopping 39% in taxes, much of which gets passed on to the common folk in the form of entitlements.

 

[usedcarguy]

E85 would get much better mileage if the engines were designed to run on it exclusively. Even though it has fewer BTU's than gasoline, the higher octane level would allow for a higher compression ratio in an engine without detonation, which would increase power and mileage. With a flex-fuel vehicle, a lower compression ratio must be used to accomodate gasoline which kills the mileage of E-85. The higher the compression ratio of the engine, the less the mileage difference between the two fuels.

An interesting tidbit on CAFE standards...... For the purpose of calculating the average fleet fuel economy, if a Silverado is rated at 18 mpg on gas and 16 mpg with E85, it's CAFE number for the government is 34. (18 + 16) Because the manufacturers must maintain a certain average fleet fuel economy rating, (around 25 mpg) by selling more flex fuel vehicles they can sell more trucks. Without this loophole in the law, Ford & GM would miss the CAFE minimums by a wide margin and would only be able to sell about half the number of trucks and SUV's which they currently sell. The law encourages the use of alternative fuels but not less fuel.