Does Campbell really do more with less???

[Bipolarcy]

I think the difference is the backups. Generally the OU and Texas type teams are so deep if someone gets hurt the drop off is way less than a Northwester or Iowa State. Our top guys are just as good as their top guys and usually were underrated out of high school. We generally have to develope better and thus our “doing more with less” is semi accurate

I don't think that's even true any more. Look at the O-line for instance. We lost two starters pretty close to the beginning of the year, but they plugged in two new guys and they've been playing lights out.

Look at the end of the Kansas State and Kansas games, where the scrubs got a lot of playing time. Against Kansas State, the second and third team units played most of the fourth quarter on defense and they held KSU to 64 yards in the quarter. The second and third team offense scored a TD, a FG and had another FG try that missed in the same quarter.

Against Kansas, the second and third team defense was swarming to the ball and played a lot in the last two Kansas series and gave up 9 yards on two drives. The offense scored in two plays from over 50 yards out.

 

[tolfbfan]

Perhaps the question could have been phrased better.

*Please note that I’ve been following recruiting since 1979. And this staff does offer the “big time” recruits. They just haven’t been completely successful yet.

Okay, I agree. We do offer, but CMC and staff have to fight the perception train. We all have some level of ego.

 

[Aclone]

Just looking at the 2019 and 2020 classes, Texas got 30 four stars, 3 five star recruits and Ou got 27 four stars and 3 five stars. No one else is even close.

More relevantly, as tolfbfan put it, we have a grand total of two “big time” recruits on our roster. Not merely the four who managed four star rankings, but the two who once were the center of huge national recruiting storms.

And while we got both of those guys because of hiccups in their recruiting process, the pure athletic profile for each is clearly a notch above.

With Matt Campbell’s approval, I’d cheerfully take more.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Okay, I agree. We do offer, but CMC and staff have to fight the perception train. We all have some level of ego.

I think about CSP's issues with highly talented players and realize some programs are built to accommodate elite "stars" and some aren't. It's great if you're a KY in basketball or an Alabama in football where your 4 and 5 stars are replaced by 4 and 5 stars with little to no drop-off but our focus HAS to be on great character kids with the basic level of skills that are willing to develop. Maybe you can find a lot of "humble" 4 and 5 star kids who are team-oriented, but I'm not sure that many exist with AAU, parents, handlers and enablers throughout these star kid's upbringing.

 

[JM4CY]

We also count our pennies. Couch change within the Texas athletic would fund the majority of our athletic department.

I don’t know. Couch change with in the Texas AD is just coins. Any lose dollar bills have very intentional, alternate purpose within that athletic dept.

 

[isucy86]

No question Campbell does more with less. Having been a fan of ISU for close to 40 years, every ISU coach has typically been able to sign 1 or 2 four-star recruits a year.

Where Campbell has been outstanding:
- Skill offensive player identification & development. Our QB's, RB's and WR's have been upper echelon Big12.
- The staff has recruited and developed an elite DL. Over the years, an ISU team might have had 1-2 Big12 level D-lineman. We are to the point where we go 6-7 deep.
- He has developed a culture where kids want to stay at ISU. Sure we still have transfers, but not to the level as prior coaches.
- We have program depth at every position. We just don't play our starting 22. Throughout the game our 2nd unit guys get snaps and for the most part they play well.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

To be a dominate program in college football or basketball you need two things elite players and elite coaching. There are three programs in football that have both, Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State. All have won titles and been in the playoffs multiple times. Teams can achieve success and win a title if you have just elite players, but struggle to maintain it at high levels, like LSU. Programs like Michigan, Penn State, Florida, Texas, USC and others have elite players, but don't have coaches that can take them over the top and keep them there year after year. Some programs like OU have elite coaching, elite offensive players, but are lacking on the defensive end.

I saw a stat last night, UT has 54 4 and 5 star players on their roster, ISU has 3 to 4 depending on the ranking service. This is the reason that coach tend to leave programs like ISU and others to put themselves in a position to be able to recruit higher ranked players. Other coaches like Snyder and Freerents understand they have a great gig, and will not face the pressure of winning conference titles year after year, and are good with that. Plus they can make a ton of money, and be the face of the program, and get a statue of them in front of the stadium when they retire.

We have to hope the Campbell is in the last group, that him and his wife love the small town life in Ames, and he understands he can make millions here and not have the pressure to win at the highest level. If he is offered and takes the Michigan job, he will be expected to beat Ohio State, and take them to the playoffs, otherwise after 5 to 6 years they will be looking for a coach that can do those things.

 

[LivntheCyLife]

Yes, ISU is doing more with less and always will unless we can somehow double our annual athletics budget...and suddenly be located in a recruiting hotbed...and suddenly develop a storied tradition...and are featured on ESPN/FOX every night with the likes of Alabama, OU Ohio St etc. So yeah, ISU will always have to do more with less just like K-State under Snyder and now Kleiman. This is just the way it is.

I do think it's interesting we talk about Alabama and Oklahoma and not Florida and Texas. TV market size probably matters less in college football now than at any point in the past 40 years. I view not being in a pro market as a plus. Tradition matters but it does change over time. Recruiting will always be a challenge but I'm not sure I'd trade current coaches and football programs with Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Kansas St, Illinois, Mizzou, or Minnesota. That's a pretty amazing statement for Iowa St. It's a slow process but it is fun to dream.

 

[LivntheCyLife]

I think about CSP's issues with highly talented players and realize some programs are built to accommodate elite "stars" and some aren't. It's great if you're a KY in basketball or an Alabama in football where your 4 and 5 stars are replaced by 4 and 5 stars with little to no drop-off but our focus HAS to be on great character kids with the basic level of skills that are willing to develop. Maybe you can find a lot of "humble" 4 and 5 star kids who are team-oriented, but I'm not sure that many exist with AAU, parents, handlers and enablers throughout these star kid's upbringing.

One of the challenges I think is the humble 4 and 5 stars are willing to put in the time at a big time program and want to be the best. You have to be skeptical of what a big time recruit's motives are when they drop down a tier as they are often just looking for guaranteed early playing time and a faster path to the pros. There are definitely plenty of examples of coaches having early success but then failing to blend in more highly rated recruits when they start landing them.

 

[Scruff]

If recruit rankings are to be believed, then yes Coach Campbell does more with less.

Breece Hall was rated by 247 at .8955, which is lower than the average at Texas and Oklahoma. That show's me that recruit rankings are a long way from perfect! I believe Campbell is great at finding talent that others miss. His Five-Star Culture also deserves praise for developing players and putting them in a place to succeed.

	Average	2020	2019	2018	2017	2016
Texas	0.9055	0.9176	0.9119	0.9216	0.8758	0.9007
Oklahoma	0.9019	0.9039	0.9120	0.9095	0.8993	0.8849
TCU	0.8712	0.8849	0.8653	0.8713	0.8518	0.8825
Baylor	0.8578	0.8553	0.8595	0.8677	0.8460	0.8603
Oklahoma St	0.8552	0.8546	0.8601	0.8652	0.8495	0.8467
WVU	0.8517	0.8644	0.8574	0.8640	0.8418	0.8308
Texas Tech	0.8440	0.8516	0.8426	0.8376	0.8484	0.8400
Iowa State	0.8433	0.8511	0.8533	0.8481	0.8390	0.8249
K State	0.8350	0.8439	0.8397	0.8375	0.8333	0.8208
Kansas	0.8312	0.8394	0.8376	0.8354	0.8218	0.8219

 

[tolfbfan]

ISU on way to Dallas to play a blueblood.

 

[Pat]

I don’t know. Couch change with in the Texas AD is just coins. Any lose dollar bills have very intentional, alternate purpose within that athletic dept.

Ok. Cool
Hook Em!

 

[Aclone]

If recruit rankings are to be believed, then yes Coach Campbell does more with less.

Breece Hall was rated by 247 at .8955, which is lower than the average at Texas and Oklahoma. That show's me that recruit rankings are a long way from perfect! I believe Campbell is great at finding talent that others miss. His Five-Star Culture also deserves praise for developing players and putting them in a place to succeed.

	Average	2020	2019	2018	2017	2016
Texas	0.9055	0.9176	0.9119	0.9216	0.8758	0.9007
Oklahoma	0.9019	0.9039	0.9120	0.9095	0.8993	0.8849
TCU	0.8712	0.8849	0.8653	0.8713	0.8518	0.8825
Baylor	0.8578	0.8553	0.8595	0.8677	0.8460	0.8603
Oklahoma St	0.8552	0.8546	0.8601	0.8652	0.8495	0.8467
WVU	0.8517	0.8644	0.8574	0.8640	0.8418	0.8308
Texas Tech	0.8440	0.8516	0.8426	0.8376	0.8484	0.8400
Iowa State	0.8433	0.8511	0.8533	0.8481	0.8390	0.8249
K State	0.8350	0.8439	0.8397	0.8375	0.8333	0.8208
Kansas	0.8312	0.8394	0.8376	0.8354	0.8218	0.8219

Technically speaking, 247 ranked Breece a 94. That .8955 was his Composite, largely because Rivals decided to be stubborn dunderheads.

Breece Hall, Northwest , Running Back

Breece Hall is a 6-0, 215-pound Athlete from Wichita, KS.

247sports.com

 

[tolfbfan]

Technically speaking, 247 ranked Breece a 94. That .8955 was his Composite, largely because Rivals decided to be stubborn dunderheads.

Breece Hall, Northwest , Running Back

Breece Hall is a 6-0, 215-pound Athlete from Wichita, KS.

247sports.com

Rankings are never going to be perfect. Some kids travel the "RANKING CIRCUIT" which helps their ranking if they are the real deal. Other kids go to college camps which is another way to get exposure. Some do both which would be a real burden to the family in both time and money. Other kids only send out film. Some others do nothing. CMC finds the less exposed kids and also gets in early on kids they think will blow up later in the process. This is how they fill the roster to compete. In another note, 247 is the best since they combine multiple services rankings to get their composite number. It accounts for kids taking different routes recruiting wise.

 

[Scruff]

Technically speaking, 247 ranked Breece a 94. That .8955 was his Composite, largely because Rivals decided to be stubborn dunderheads.

Breece Hall, Northwest , Running Back

Breece Hall is a 6-0, 215-pound Athlete from Wichita, KS.

247sports.com

I like the Composite score best, as shown by my posting composite scores. Breece is also a good example of Campbell's ability to find talent. Breece along with many others were rising in score after they committed to ISU. Given time perhaps Rivals would have caught on and he would have risen more.

 

[SpokaneCY]

I don’t know. Couch change with in the Texas AD is just coins. Any lose dollar bills have very intentional, alternate purpose within that athletic dept.

Might have to turn the black light on to know what you're dealing with...

 

[madguy30]

I always thought KSU over the last decade or so with Snyder was the definition of more with less. They were fundamentally sound, kept it simple but effective and just needed one or two real threats on offense.

The narrative seems to stick with CMC, but if you take a look, he's got some of the best players in the conference. It's more of a depth thing but that's also changing.

 

[StPaulCyclone]

Of course he does. As has been said, ISU is a developmental program. the blue bloods just reload every year.

 

[Highway]

I believe he does more with less. Recruiting stars is one metric, but if you look at NFL draft picks for Texas and Oklahoma, they clearly have had an “NFL talent” advantage over ISU.

 

[DurangoCy]

Another poster already mentioned it in this thread, but CMC is building the program very similar to the approach used by Bill Snyder and Kirk Ferentz. Hate to compliment those two gentlemen, but we have to grudgingly admit their programs competed at high levels at their peak. Of course recruiting is important, but culture and player development are equally critical.

CMC's advantage is he seems to be able to relate to this generation much better than BS or KF have EVER done.

IMHO - KSU, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Stanford need to be our model. ND would be the gold standard. KSU for the most part never had the recruiting classes to even remotely predict their success, so they're still the outlier in that group. If ISU can pull in mostly mid to high 3 stars with a few 4 stars each year (similar to TCU), I think we would compete with OU and Texas regularly.

I think Matt Campbell is the second coming, but I still don't think we can compete year in and year out without better recruiting. As is, I think we can compete every few years, which is still a miracle.

Also, the doing more with less narrative is an easy crutch for analysts and got old 10 years ago.