Teams
Forum List
Toggle sidebar

Do Bill Fennelly teams underperform nationally?

Three4Cy said:
Comparison
Bill Fennelly vs. Lisa Bluder

Fennelly
Overall - 756-353 - .682 (all wins D1)
ISU 589-300 - .663
NCAA invites (Toledo and ISU) - 24 (record of 23-23)
Sweet 16's - 4
Elite 8's - 2
Final Fours - 0

Bluder
Overall 851-387 - .687 (note 169-36 at NAIA St. Ambrose)
Overall D1 only - 682-351 -.660
UIowa 494-246 - .668
NCAA invites (Drake and UIowa) - 21 (record of 20-21)
Sweet 16's - 2
Elite 8's - 1
Final Fours - 1

Getting to the Final Four takes a little bit of luck, and being able to avoid injuries. Iowa did not have any major injuries this year, and being the number five overall seed, had the luxury of a weak number one in the NCAA tourney who was sputtering down the stretch.
Click to expand...

Career wise they are pretty much a push and legit comparison considering they are in the same state at similar sized schools in major leagues.

A more relevant comparison would be for the here and now, say going back ten years. Bluder clearly wins the last ten year period with a Big 10 title, two Sweet Sixteens, an Elite Eight and a Final Four. During the same ten year period we have no titles and a single Sweet Sixteen. During that period she's had two big star players to build around and we had two star players to build around. She has done more with that than we have.


Disclosure: Acknowledging a rival's success doesn't diminish our own, it's just being honest with ourselves. Me as a Yankee fan saying Shohei Ohtani is freaking awesome doesn't mean Aaron Judge isn't still my favorite player.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1UNI2ISU, OKClones, legi and 1 other person
Women’s basketball is a success if they minimize the financial loss. Bill is a raging success.
 
I guess the question is, underperform relative to what? If fan support and attendance are the only things that matter, then other Iowa State sports have underperformed, too. Obviously, those aren't the only things that matter.

That question is the basis of my viewpoint in arguments I've had with some on here. In this case, Fennelly is the entirety of Iowa State's women's basketball success and is the reason that fan support and attendance are where they are. I don't really see how we can look at the program, even in its current state with the transfers out, and say that it's doing worse than it should be.

That doesn't mean that Fennelly is immune from criticism, and if you look at the Carleton and Joens eras, you probably would have expected at least one Elite Eight at some point. And I even understand some of the critics getting annoyed with those of us that have defended Fennelly. But it also seems like many of those critics seem to imply that the Iowa State women's basketball replacement-level coach would be better, and I just don't really see how that's the case.

Fennelly's coaching style and play style probably needs to adjust; the Donarski and Fritz transfers are likely indicators of that. But I also think that we shouldn't act like Fennelly hasn't changed at all, even in the past 10 years. The team talent was in a lull in the 2010s, and since then, he's been able to pick up some of the best recruits in team history. The team needed more length when Scott graduated, so he initially got Jordao and Diew, then the next offseason he went and got one of the best posts available in Soares. People might poo-poo that because it didn't result in postseason success, but sometimes things just don't work out.
 
  • Like
  • Winner
  • Agree
Reactions: NWICY, peatyscotch, acoustimac and 3 others
IMO, BF is an excellent coach and recruiter, but he reminds of Coach Orr. He recruits players that fit the system and are more "coachable", rather than going after the top 50 or 100 players, (fortunately, TJ does both). I think Iowa had the best player in the country, but not the best "players".

The level of athleticism in the women's game has increased drastically in the last decade or two, making it more difficult for teams to succeed with an even roster devoid of an outstanding playmaker or two. It is also faster and has better fundamentals make it a better show for all...
 
  • Like
Reactions: CycloneRulzzz and acoustimac
1961Cylones said:
IMO, BF is an excellent coach and recruiter, but he reminds of Coach Orr. He recruits players that fit the system and are more "coachable", rather than going after the top 50 or 100 players, (fortunately, TJ does both). I think Iowa had the best player in the country, but not the best "players".

The level of athleticism in the women's game has increased drastically in the last decade or two, making it more difficult for teams to succeed with an even roster devoid of an outstanding playmaker or two. It is also faster and has better fundamentals make it a better show for all...
Click to expand...
As you note - the game has dramatically. We do not recruit at a level to be elite in WBB.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: peatyscotch
isutrevman said:
I don't know what fans expect from the WBB program. They've been arguably the best sports program at Iowa State over the last 20 years, outside of maybe wrestling?

I'm not a die-hard WBB fan, but to me, just keep doing what they've been doing.
Click to expand...
You forgetting our Cross country team? ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: isutrevman
BoxsterCy said:
Career wise they are pretty much a push and legit comparison considering they are in the same state at similar sized schools in major leagues.

A more relevant comparison would be for the here and now, say going back ten years. Bluder clearly wins the last ten year period with a Big 10 title, two Sweet Sixteens, an Elite Eight and a Final Four. During the same ten year period we have no titles and a single Sweet Sixteen. During that period she's had two big star players to build around and we had two star players to build around. She has done more with that than we have.


Disclosure: Acknowledging a rival's success doesn't diminish our own, it's just being honest with ourselves. Me as a Yankee fan saying Shohei Ohtani is freaking awesome doesn't mean Aaron Judge isn't still my favorite player.
Click to expand...
Agree with you. I will also say that I believe Bill has the opportunity to change course. He has a very nice recruiting class coming in and if he can hold most of it (rarely does any one hold all of it) and get a solid class behind it, that he will have a heck of a core for the team. Iowa will be good next year, but unless they have a very good class for next year, they will start to retreat to their mean. I think Czaino was a more important piece than anyone is saying. I don't see her and Warnock being replaced with as good of players for next year.
 
BCClone said:
Agree with you. I will also say that I believe Bill has the opportunity to change course. He has a very nice recruiting class coming in and if he can hold most of it (rarely does any one hold all of it) and get a solid class behind it, that he will have a heck of a core for the team. Iowa will be good next year, but unless they have a very good class for next year, they will start to retreat to their mean. I think Czaino was a more important piece than anyone is saying. I don't see her and Warnock being replaced with as good of players for next year.
Click to expand...
They have one player coming in for 2023-2024, a point guard. The other player signed for 2023-2024 is Ava Jones and she will most likely never play college basketball.
 
Three4Cy said:
They have one player coming in for 2023-2024, a point guard. The other player signed for 2023-2024 is Ava Jones and she will most likely never play college basketball.
Click to expand...
I was meaning the next recruiting class, the one after that, I wasn't very clear with that.
 
BCClone said:
I was meaning the next recruiting class, the one after that, I wasn't very clear with that.
Click to expand...
The have a 6'4 post and two more point guards.

If Clark stays for her COVID year, the two point guards aren't going to play much unless she chooses to move to the 2 guard.
 
BCClone said:
Agree with you. I will also say that I believe Bill has the opportunity to change course. He has a very nice recruiting class coming in and if he can hold most of it (rarely does any one hold all of it) and get a solid class behind it, that he will have a heck of a core for the team. Iowa will be good next year, but unless they have a very good class for next year, they will start to retreat to their mean. I think Czaino was a more important piece than anyone is saying. I don't see her and Warnock being replaced with as good of players for next year.
Click to expand...

Out a ways but she should have the inside track on highly recruited 2026 Maddyn Greenway. The success Clark has had can't hurt that recruiting battle. She has a couple gals committed for 2024 that we offered. They should still be pretty good the next two years with Clark. Considering the success Jensen has had the last decade coaching up posts I won't be surprised to see O'Grady improve. Not sure about their other post, Goodman, she impressed as a freshman but post knee injury doesn't seem to be the same player. No telling post-tourney now as to who might leave but they have some decent recruits that haven't broken through into the rotation.
BCClone said:
Are they fairly highly ranked?
Click to expand...

The guards had ISU offers, so at least good enough that we wanted them. The center is ranked as one of the best for the class of 2024.

I half ass keep tabs on the Hawks cause doubled up rivalry with me being a Cyclone and Gopher fan.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: BCClone
CY9008 said:
This past season was the first I can remember that we weren’t close to preseason expectations, but understandably so after Soares went down.

We landed our first McDonalds All American ever coming this fall, so no I don’t think we’ve ever been expected to make the Final Four.
Click to expand...

The problem is retention. You can't be a young team every year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Help Support Us

Become a patron
Top Bottom
Back