Deace haters...

[Cyclone62]

Yeah that's true, I was meaning that statement more for somebody that was an atheist/agnostic. You're right on that this is a weaker argument for Christianity, especially if you're talking about somebody that already believes in a different religion. If I were debating the merits of Christianity with somebody of a Muslim (or different religious) faith, I wouldn't even use this point, but would rather talk about the proof that is found for the truth found in the bible.

This kind of explains why I think of organized religions as "comfort blankets," because there aren't any real answers. Since I have a choice of either eternity after death, or nothingness, I like to appeal of eternity. But because every major faith basically says to believe a certain way (accept Christ, praise Muhammad, follow Moses), I can't figure why it needs to be just one of them. The basic moral principles are all the same, but by saying you need to worship and believe a semi-specific way seems like a scare tactic. I'd rather follow the ethics that religions share, than be spiteful towards those who don't believe as I do. From what I personally believe about God, he wouldn't judge someone solely on their specific belief as much as the merit their character holds.

 

[Nedrick]

This kind of explains why I think of organized religions as "comfort blankets," because there aren't any real answers. Since I have a choice of either eternity after death, or nothingness, I like to appeal of eternity. But because every major faith basically says to believe a certain way (accept Christ, praise Muhammad, follow Moses), I can't figure why it needs to be just one of them. The basic moral principles are all the same, but by saying you need to worship and believe a semi-specific way seems like a scare tactic. I'd rather follow the ethics that religions share, than be spiteful towards those who don't believe as I do. From what I personally believe about God, he wouldn't judge someone solely on their specific belief as much as the merit their character holds.

OK, I'm going to jump into the fray here. From your point of view, what constitutes acceptance into eternity with God? Is being a good moral person enough? And where did you learn that? Lastly, do you believe in moral absolutes?

Not trying to be an antagonist, but just want to clarify exactly what you believe...

 

[Cyclone62]

OK, I'm going to jump into the fray here. From your point of view, what constitutes acceptance into eternity with God? Is being a good moral person enough? And where did you learn that? Lastly, do you believe in moral absolutes?

Not trying to be an antagonist, but just want to clarify exactly what you believe...

I really can't explain to a t what I believe exactly because I don't really know myself. I've been trying to figure it out for 6 years now what it is that I believe exactly. I guess that I would say I believe that you need to have to believe there is a God (of which religion isn't the most important). Then, one would have to be a genuinely "good person." By that I mean that they should look out for others, no matter their race, ethnicity, gender, creed, or sexual preference. Treat them all the same. I think that something started everything (matter from nothingness), and that should be acknowledged. However, how much that being is in the human race's lives I'm not sure. Did God create man specifically? I'm not sure on that either because it contradicts fossil records. I think the bible is used as a metaphorical guide on how to live a moral and righteous life, and was not meant to be taken literally. And because the three major religions (Judaism, Islam, Christanity) are so closely intertwined, I think their intention was what was from God, and not the specific words. If there truly was only one "true" religion to God, I think he would have smitten one of the major religions, which is why I think he meant us to takethe words as a sort of guide to be accepting and loving to everyone, and not just those who believe the same way you do. With how the major ideas behind the three majors are so close, yet the actions on part of all three are so divisive about which one is "right" is more of a corruption (of either man or devil) than an act of God. I think some people take the words in these sacred texts too literally, and sacrifice the imbedded intent within them. (I see Sodom and Gomorrah more as warring religions than hedonistic pagans). I may be right, I may be wrong, same as you, we won't know until the end. Sorry about the length, and I hope that clarified a bit about what I have arrived at so far as my belief structure.

 

[bandit]

Personally I have never believed any of the moral rants Deace has spewed forth. He will do whateer it takes to become the next Rush and really only cares about the dollar.

If he really believes as strongly in Christ as he claims - great. Personally, I think he said and did anything on 1460 to get to his fat payday on 1040. Now that he's on 1040 he is probably trying to carve his own niche in the well-worn path of countless conservative radio personalities. Like most pundants, he is throwing whatever he can think of out there to see what sticks so he can ignite support for his 'cause,' AKA: moving to larger markets and even more cash.

Remember his motto "Fear God, Tell the Truth and Make Money." Curious that for such a proud Christian, he doesn't utter Christ's name in his "words of wisdom."

 

[Nedrick]

I really can't explain to a t what I believe exactly because I don't really know myself. I've been trying to figure it out for 6 years now what it is that I believe exactly.

Sounds like you've been on quite the spiritual quest. It seems like you've based most of your beliefs on your experiences (since you don't take any particular text as gospel - pun intended). Correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way, do you see the Bible's 10 commandments as a general guideline or a list of absolutes? Just curious...

 

[Cyclone62]

Sounds like you've been on quite the spiritual quest. It seems like you've based most of your beliefs on your experiences (since you don't take any particular text as gospel - pun intended). Correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way, do you see the Bible's 10 commandments as a general guideline or a list of absolutes? Just curious...

I base a lot of it on both experiences, as well as my own reading of the christian bible. (NT and OT so I guess you could throw the Jewish bible in there as well).

Well, the way that I see it, is that it's not a list of "laws" per say. There are some contradictions that I've seen with the commandments. The Crusades for example is a direct contradiction of "Thou shallt not kill." "Thou shall not worship false idols" is a direct contradiction to popularity and politics. I think there is also "before me" at the end of that commandment, but I can't remember exactly. However, the way some politicians and celebrities are idolized by people, seems to place them before God. (Bush's 'God said to me' doesn't help anyone either). I think there is some grey area in the commandments, with how people who supposedly follow them act. Also, the order/importance of the last six seems a little off to me. I mean, if we shouldn't bear false witness, the only reason to do so would be because of a covetous nature, which would reverse their order. (ie: not being covetous before lying). That, and the murdering being after honoring your parents seems off to me as well. The first four deal completely with faith, so I'm not going there, as result that in order of religious faiths, their importance is properly placed. From a societal standpoint, the last six seem to be off a little.

 

[Nedrick]

What's your foundational belief after reading through the Bible? Which parts do you take literally and which do you take with a grain of salt? Do you believe in the miracles described there as well?

Do you believe in sin and it's consequences? Do you feel sinfulness should be judged? If so, how?

 

[Cyclone62]

What's your foundational belief after reading through the Bible? Which parts do you take literally and which do you take with a grain of salt? Do you believe in the miracles described there as well?

Do you believe in sin and it's consequences? Do you feel sinfulness should be judged? If so, how?

What do you mean by "fundamental belief"? I tried to answer what I believed already.

I would say that I don't take any part of the bible "literally," although I feel I'm walking into a judgmented attack by saying that. Like, the stories throughout the bible, I believe are meant metaphorically (essentially the entire book). The Ten Commandments would be the most blunt, and I think those were meant more as they were written than anything else as societal views at the time it was written. The adultery term comes to mind as implicitly saying that women should obey men (a man engaging in sexual relations with a married woman. Implies women should obey men).

Personally, I see sin and immorality as interchangeable words. I'm not sure what you're getting at there. I would say that acting immoral (killing for instance) can be forgiven if asked to be by God (with or without a priest, rabbi, cleric, etc.). What I mean is that, if I killed a person, either in or out of war, as it's the same act, if I told God that I was sorry for doing it (and truly was), I could repent in a way I felt that I was acceptable. If I committed murder for personal gain/first degree, I would personally ask for "eye for an eye." Act of war/self defense, I would feel a call to do community service acts either at home, or where the person I killed was from. Which one, I'm not sure as I've never been to war, and hopefully never will be as I'm a C.O.. (I'd rather die myself than kill another).

 

[Kyle]

Yeah I understand what you're saying, all I'm saying is that the basis of Christianity is that it is the ONLY WAY. So while it would be futile and ignorant to insult somebody and tell them they're going to hell if you have their eternal interests at heart as a Christian, if you are a Christian you at least believe that's where they're heading without changing. Out of compassion/love you can try to find a better way to help them than bashing on them. However, it would just be impossible to be a Christian and think that everybody's going to heaven because that goes against a major premise of Christianity.

I don't agree with tigerhoops all that often, especially with regards to religion. However, I think he states quite well here the thoughts of a caring Christian. If you really believe that most of the people in this world are going to end up in hell due to their beliefs then the only option for a caring Christian is to try to spread their faith.

There a good and bad ways to go about this though. Arrogant preaching and telling people they're going to hell is not an effective method. Setting a good example through your actions and reasoned and respectful arguments are. I have a lot of respect for those that employ the later tactics. Unlike those that employ the former, they are usually good people. I just happen to believe they are mistaken.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Also, the order/importance of the last six seems a little off to me. I mean, if we shouldn't bear false witness, the only reason to do so would be because of a covetous nature, which would reverse their order. (ie: not being covetous before lying). That, and the murdering being after honoring your parents seems off to me as well. The first four deal completely with faith, so I'm not going there, as result that in order of religious faiths, their importance is properly placed. From a societal standpoint, the last six seem to be off a little.

Actually, it's not ordered the way you think. The first 4 commandments dictate your relationship with God (You shall have no other gods before me; You shall not make any idols; You shall not use the name of God in vain; Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy) and the last 6 dictate our relationships with others (Honor your father and mother; You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness (lie) against your neighbor (others); You shall not covet anything that is your neighbor's). This is how Jesus was able to say that there are only two important commands - "Love God with all of your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Against such things there is no law." If you follow those two commands theoretically you should be able to keep all 10 Commandments. The way they are ordered themselves is irrelevant because no one command is greater than the other. Break any one of them and the consequence (from God) is the same (death and eternal separation from God). Considering that Jesus said that gossiping is the same as murder and lusting after a woman is the same thing as committing adultery, and that ALL OF US are sinners, the 10 Commandments are impossible to keep (and I have broken each and every one of them myself under Jesus' standards). That is the reason for Christ's death and resurrection, because none of us are capable of keeping the 10 commandments (or even the two that Jesus gave us to simplify matters).

 

[DaddyMac]

I don't agree with tigerhoops all that often, especially with regards to religion. However, I think he states quite well here the thoughts of a caring Christian. If you really believe that most of the people in this world are going to end up in hell due to their beliefs then the only option for a caring Christian is to try to spread their faith.

Well, fortunately for the (apparently) condemned such as myself, there are a few billion Christians in the world. And I rest well knowing that the vast, vast minority of them are the ilk of Steve Deace and those who share his views. Personally, I think Christ would be pretty repulsed by the hatred and bigotry expressed "in his name".

As I said, I remember repeatedly hearing through my 12 years of Catholic education - "love one another". I must have missed classes where they said "bash the Jews, marginalize the gays, lynch the blacks (that was only about 75 years ago folks), blow up the abortion clinics, etc and so on".

So, thus far nobody who claims to find Christianity to be "the only way" because "the good book says it" can explain to me the reversal of why we have ham on Easter, or bacon on Sunday morning? I mean - "the book" says it's unclean.....

 

[Nedrick]

So, thus far nobody who claims to find Christianity to be "the only way" because "the good book says it" can explain to me the reversal of why we have ham on Easter, or bacon on Sunday morning? I mean - "the book" says it's unclean.....

The Bible clears this up in the New Testament. (Acts 10, to be specific)
Check it out for yourself... LINK

 

[DaddyMac]

I've seen this one Ned, knew about it the whole time. Most don't, however.

Despite at least 4 passages in the old Testament pronouncing it "unclean", Peter gets hungry, a sheet falls from heaven containing all the animals God has created (only a few billion species) and suddenly it's all ok.

:baffled5wh:

It's case in point of why the bible is figurative, not literal.

 

[KneeGusto]

I'm risking losing rep points, but oh well...:rolleyes5cz:

Do you personally know Steve Deace? How do you know he's not walking his walk? How do you know his on air belief system is any different than when he's walking through Wal-Mart or grilling burgers with his neighbors? And how can anyone determine which path Deace has taken if they don't really know him?

By the way, evangelical Christianity isn't a sect...

(Braces for flaming arrows...)

Evangelicals should be especially be outraged at Deace's hijacking of their reputation.

No fear here, friend. No negative rep - and valid questions by you. PLEASE keep asking questions. Do I know Deace - YES. Is he a good guy- YES. Does he belong to a religious sect outside of his church? - YES.

Ask Steve how he feels about women and their role in society and in the family. Ask him about single fathers. Ask Steve about how he feels about domestic violence and reconciliation. Ask Steve about whether a check to his sect would help (it's a for-profit religious group).

Steve has an agenda that goes way beyond Sunday sermons.

Ask him. Challenge him. Discuss his beliefs - what he puts on the air and what he is trying to influence you with.

Keep asking what Steve Deace about religion and ALL religion based organizations he is involved with. Walk right up to him - he is a public figure - you have every right.

I am not out to trash Steve Deace. I only ask that Deace fans look further - investigate & ask the guy exactly what his real beliefs are. Ask him about his church and whatnot, but also ask him about the religion-based organizations he belongs to outside of his church.

Steve is an extremely talented AM radio guy. Steve's talents will probably rip him out of Iowa for some national show soon. His talent and tongue are a ticket to greater things.

Steve has some "outside the lines" beliefs. Steve thinks he has moral superiority over university presidents and whatnot.

I'll take the "lesser Christians" any time compared to Deace.

 

[joepublic]

Evangelicals should be especially be outraged at Deace's hijacking of their reputation.

No fear here, friend. No negative rep - and valid questions by you. PLEASE keep asking questions. Do I know Deace - YES. Is he a good guy- YES. Does he belong to a religious sect outside of his church? - YES.

Ask Steve how he feels about women and their role in society and in the family. Ask him about single fathers. Ask Steve about how he feels about domestic violence and reconciliation. Ask Steve about whether a check to his sect would help (it's a for-profit religious group).

Steve has an agenda that goes way beyond Sunday sermons.

Ask him. Challenge him. Discuss his beliefs - what he puts on the air and what he is trying to influence you with.

Keep asking what Steve Deace about religion and ALL religion based organizations he is involved with. Walk right up to him - he is a public figure - you have every right.

I am not out to trash Steve Deace. I only ask that Deace fans look further - investigate & ask the guy exactly what his real beliefs are. Ask him about his church and whatnot, but also ask him about the religion-based organizations he belongs to outside of his church.

Steve is an extremely talented AM radio guy. Steve's talents will probably rip him out of Iowa for some national show soon. His talent and tongue are a ticket to greater things.

Steve has some "outside the lines" beliefs. Steve thinks he has moral superiority over university presidents and whatnot.

I'll take the "lesser Christians" any time compared to Deace.

My hunch is with the home schooling background he dabbles a bit in christian reconstructionism.

 

[Nedrick]

I've seen this one Ned, knew about it the whole time. Most don't, however.

Despite at least 4 passages in the old Testament pronouncing it "unclean", Peter gets hungry, a sheet falls from heaven containing all the animals God has created (only a few billion species) and suddenly it's all ok.

:baffled5wh:

It's case in point of why the bible is figurative, not literal.

I don't think it's a matter of God changing his mind on the matter. Jesus came to fulfill the law and after his death and resurrection, the regulations of the Old Testament were unnecessary. Just like there was no further need by followers to sacrifice animals/birds for atonement since it was taken care of by Jesus' death.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

My hunch is with the home schooling background he dabbles a bit in christian reconstructionism.

Steve attended public schools.

 

[Wesley]

From the venom being spewed over on the football board concerning Deace's article, a question came to mind. Why do those of you who constantly bash on Deace hate him so much? I know the obvious answer is that you disagree with his religious views and such, but is there more? I mean there's plenty of guys on the radio that I don't agree with but I don't wish them ill will or go nuts on them like I've heard everyone who disagrees with Steve do. Please explain your rationale for the rest of us that enjoy his views on family values and morality (something seriously lacking in our world today).

Like mountain climbing, because he is there on the east coast. Like the Gumbel fiasco.

 

[joepublic]

Steve attended public schools.

He's stated on his shows that they home school their kids.

 

[Cy-banger]

Many have not and will not accept that, but then again that doesn't disprove that what he claims isn't true. (topic for another day)

True, it doesn't necessarily disprove it. But, his irrational, unsound and logically fallacious arguments don't help prove them either.