Coaching Staff In The First Half

[madguy30]

"Sports-wise" (i.e. not in the grand scheme of life, family, happiness, etc. - but from a "sports" passion perspective) I find it extremely disappointing to lose to that Kansas program, yes. I find it embarrassing, actually. Night game. National audience. HUGE stakes. I think that it absolutely sucks (and is embarrassing the sports-side of me) that Kansas has already passed us so quickly into their rebuild.

I am really frustrated with our coaching staff and the common themes in these losses, year after year after year. I am not frustrated with the players - they are young men (some kids) that work hard and play hard. I am frustrated with the coaching, strategy, and scheme decisions that put them in positions that make our margins razor thin.

I really for the life of me cannot fathom how their are fans here that are so ANTI that sentiment. Like, are you offended? Are you mad at people that are frustrated with these specific types of losses? Can we really not be frustrated with our coaches?

And assuming I will get the "OH WeLL iF YoU ARE So SMArt THen mAYbe YOU ShouLD CoAcH!" response, I will 100% admit I probably should not be a coach (given that I am not qualified). I am though qualified to vent and b*tch about the team/school I love on a free sports message board.

'That' Kansas program has interjected good talent and it's worked out much like CMC did with ISU in his first three years. Things tend to level off or even out so we'll see where they are in 4 or so years if Leipold stays.

His team has been one of the better coached in the conference since he's been there. They went to a bowl last year and they've picked off Texas (in Austin) and OU two weeks ago in just under three seasons. They're a top offensive team with an average defense and it's not like they limped into the game.

ISU has been overall consistently average/decent with CMC which is a huge upgrade from about any other tenure so I'm not sure how it can be embarrassing for a still young average ISU team to lose to a good KU team that will end the season with at least 8 wins.
If you can't view it from that kind of reality, that's your problem.

Wait-were you the one who thought play action in a flag football game translates to a P5 football team? That says something right there.

 

[AuH2O]

When did Kansas run a 9 man front? I'd be curious to see those plays.

The PAT.

This is the kind of stuff that makes message boards awesome. People throwing things out there that are ridiculous like KU was playing an 8 and 9 man front.

It's right up there with people thinking predicting "pass or run" 60% of the time correctly somehow means the offense is "predictable." Or that every time a RB runs the ball between the two tight ends it's basically all the same play, or at best everything is like their 7th grade football play book where it's just a bunch of man straight man blocking and dives to a hole.

 

[trevn]

"Sports-wise" (i.e. not in the grand scheme of life, family, happiness, etc. - but from a "sports" passion perspective) I find it extremely disappointing to lose to that Kansas program, yes. I find it embarrassing, actually. Night game. National audience. HUGE stakes. I think that it absolutely sucks (and is embarrassing the sports-side of me) that Kansas has already passed us so quickly into their rebuild.

I am really frustrated with our coaching staff and the common themes in these losses, year after year after year. I am not frustrated with the players - they are young men (some kids) that work hard and play hard. I am frustrated with the coaching, strategy, and scheme decisions that put them in positions that make our margins razor thin.

I really for the life of me cannot fathom how their are fans here that are so ANTI that sentiment. Like, are you offended? Are you mad at people that are frustrated with these specific types of losses? Can we really not be frustrated with our coaches?

And assuming I will get the "OH WeLL iF YoU ARE So SMArt THen mAYbe YOU ShouLD CoAcH!" response, I will 100% admit I probably should not be a coach (given that I am not qualified). I am though qualified to vent and b*tch about the team/school I love on a free sports message board.

Of course you can criticize. Of course you can be frustrated. I think the reaction you are perceiving as anti- that sentiment is actually a reaction to not what the criticisms are, but how they are being delivered. Believe it or not, some people on here only post when things are going wrong and badger people with ridiculous amounts of over the top negativity and some people get tired of reading the same stuff over and over again. If you push hard enough, some people with opposing views will come out swinging. People will meet your energy and if you're pissed off enough to vent here, you shouldn't ***** when someone comes back at you with the same amount of energy from the other side. Either change the way you deliver your message or don't complain when someone dares to challenge you.

 

[AuH2O]

After our early struggles many people, including CW, said we should pass to set up the run. We started doing that then we started winning. Then we just totally bailed on it against KU and we lost.

I do think this game plan was a case of falling into the trap too much of exploiting the oppositions weakness instead of banking on what you've been doing well. I understand why they did that, but it isn't like Liepold doesn't know they struggled to stop the run, and that our staff definitely likes to default to the run game.

But there was definitely something wrong in pass protection the first half. It was one of the worst halves of pass protection ISU has had this season.

 

[Cyclones125]

I simply can not understand how somebody can be a P5 head coach and consistently be so awful at clock management. Even more frustrating that CMC pretended like he didn't know what happened in the post-game conference. Guy refuses to acknowledge when he f's up and is making me sour on him.

 

[jsb]

I simply can not understand how somebody can be a P5 head coach and consistently be so awful at clock management. Even more frustrating that CMC pretended like he didn't know what happened in the post-game conference. Guy refuses to acknowledge when he f's up and is making me sour on him.

I really thought at that time there was something funky with the clock. The players were pointing at the clock.

 

[MJ271]

I was at a wedding on Saturday and traveling yesterday, so today is really the first moment I'm scrolling through this thread or looking closely at play-by-play. Reading this thread, I was expecting that the run game and play-calling was first half of Ohio-esque, but I'm just not seeing that in the stats. I haven't watched the game yet, but I feel like that perspective might give me a bit more objectivity as far as actual outcomes.

There were 7 offensive possessions in the first half, let's say 6 real possessions since the pick-6 happened on the second play of the drive. Of those, I think I only see one drive where multiple unsuccessful run plays were called that clearly killed the drive. (That's the drive spanning the 1st and 2nd quarter, where Norton had a 15 yard run, then runs of -2 and 0 yards.)

Believe it or not, Sanders averaged 3.8 yards per carry in the first quarter, and Norton had one run for 15 yards. Not too bad. The second quarter was far less successful of course, but it also resulted in 15 passing plays vs. 4 running plays. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like Becht's 3 second quarter runs were 1 sack and 2 scrambles). That seems like a play-calling adjustment to me.

Again, I haven't watched the game. I don't know what the specific play calls were or how they were executed. But seeing the stats makes me start to think that we are once again in a situation where the drives didn't result in points, therefore it's decided that something must have been wrong with the offensive scheme.

 

[jsb]

I was at a wedding on Saturday and traveling yesterday, so today is really the first moment I'm scrolling through this thread or looking closely at play-by-play. Reading this thread, I was expecting that the run game and play-calling was first half of Ohio-esque, but I'm just not seeing that in the stats. I haven't watched the game yet, but I feel like that perspective might give me a bit more objectivity as far as actual outcomes.

There were 7 offensive possessions in the first half, let's say 6 real possessions since the pick-6 happened on the second play of the drive. Of those, I think I only see one drive where multiple unsuccessful run plays were called that clearly killed the drive. (That's the drive spanning the 1st and 2nd quarter, where Norton had a 15 yard run, then runs of -2 and 0 yards.)

Believe it or not, Sanders averaged 3.8 yards per carry in the first quarter, and Norton had one run for 15 yards. Not too bad. The second quarter was far less successful of course, but it also resulted in 15 passing plays vs. 4 running plays. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like Becht's 3 second quarter runs were 1 sack and 2 scrambles). That seems like a play-calling adjustment to me.

Again, I haven't watched the game. I don't know what the specific play calls were or how they were executed. But seeing the stats makes me start to think that we are once again in a situation where the drives didn't result in points, therefore it's decided that something must have been wrong with the offensive scheme.

In person, it LOOKED similar to early in the season. Most of us aren’t smart enough to know. Rocco was flustered the entire first half even before the pick. Bruns didn’t think it was a revert to Ohio.

 

[Cyclones125]

I really thought at that time there was something funky with the clock. The players were pointing at the clock.

I was referencing KU's fg attempt at the end of 2Q where CMC let 25 seconds run off the clock before calling TO. The play in the 2H where CMC had to burn a TO to prevent delay of game was definitely an official's mistake for not resetting the play clock.

 

[StLouisClone]

I was at a wedding on Saturday and traveling yesterday, so today is really the first moment I'm scrolling through this thread or looking closely at play-by-play. Reading this thread, I was expecting that the run game and play-calling was first half of Ohio-esque, but I'm just not seeing that in the stats. I haven't watched the game yet, but I feel like that perspective might give me a bit more objectivity as far as actual outcomes.

There were 7 offensive possessions in the first half, let's say 6 real possessions since the pick-6 happened on the second play of the drive. Of those, I think I only see one drive where multiple unsuccessful run plays were called that clearly killed the drive. (That's the drive spanning the 1st and 2nd quarter, where Norton had a 15 yard run, then runs of -2 and 0 yards.)

Believe it or not, Sanders averaged 3.8 yards per carry in the first quarter, and Norton had one run for 15 yards. Not too bad. The second quarter was far less successful of course, but it also resulted in 15 passing plays vs. 4 running plays. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like Becht's 3 second quarter runs were 1 sack and 2 scrambles). That seems like a play-calling adjustment to me.

Again, I haven't watched the game. I don't know what the specific play calls were or how they were executed. But seeing the stats makes me start to think that we are once again in a situation where the drives didn't result in points, therefore it's decided that something must have been wrong with the offensive scheme.

It wasn't just the play calls that were runs. We also started throwing the WR screens and short outs to the RB again. They went nowhere. Plus we left Rocco in the pocket where he was sacked 2 or 3 times in the 1st half.

Kansas 28-21 Iowa State (Nov 4, 2023) Play-by-Play - ESPN

Play-by-play action for the Kansas Jayhawks vs. Iowa State Cyclones NCAAF game from November 4, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[LAClone]

And let’s not forget punting on Kansas’ 37-yard line, which I haven’t seen anyone even try to defend.

 

[Stormin]

It wasn't just the play calls that were runs. We also started throwing the WR screens and short outs to the RB again. They went nowhere. Plus we left Rocco in the pocket where he was sacked 2 or 3 times in the 1st half.

Kansas 28-21 Iowa State (Nov 4, 2023) Play-by-Play - ESPN

Play-by-play action for the Kansas Jayhawks vs. Iowa State Cyclones NCAAF game from November 4, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

We gave up 2 sacks to Kansas. The OL had 6 total sacks in the first 8 games, ranking 6th in the nation for fewest allowed.

 

[clonedude]

We gave up 2 sacks to Kansas. The OL had 6 total sacks in the first 8 games, ranking 6th in the nation for fewest allowed.

I think that has a LOT more to do with the play calling and Rocco. It’s like they don’t trust Rocco to do anything, so he usually just snaps it and throws quick outs all the time. He isn’t really allowed to read a defense and sit back there for any time at all.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

The PAT.

This is the kind of stuff that makes message boards awesome. People throwing things out there that are ridiculous like KU was playing an 8 and 9 man front.

It's right up there with people thinking predicting "pass or run" 60% of the time correctly somehow means the offense is "predictable." Or that every time a RB runs the ball between the two tight ends it's basically all the same play, or at best everything is like their 7th grade football play book where it's just a bunch of man straight man blocking and dives to a hole.

What they are meaning is in the box, roughly from the tackles in on each side. As the DB's start to cheat up for run support even though they are not in the box at the start of the play, by the time the runner gets there, they have 8 to 9 in the box.

Look at the long scoring play by KU is the perfect example, the safety came flying up when he saw QB sweep or option, and the WR ran right by him, forcing the weak side safety to try and get over to cut off the receiver, he was a split second slow, and they have an 80-yard touchdown completion.

The made a great point Saturday night the KU staff looks all plays like that from around the country each week, and then pick and choose one or two for team.

 

[Gunnerclone]

What they are meaning is in the box, roughly from the tackles in on each side. As the DB's start to cheat up for run support even though they are not in the box at the start of the play, by the time the runner gets there, they have 8 to 9 in the box.

Look at the long scoring play by KU is the perfect example, the safety came flying up when he saw QB sweep or option, and the WR ran right by him, forcing the weak side safety to try and get over to cut off the receiver, he was a split second slow, and they have an 80-yard touchdown completion.

The made a great point Saturday night the KU staff looks all plays like that from around the country each week, and then pick and choose one or two for team.

This is all created by confidence in the OL play. It’s obvious we don’t have any.

Having a competent line opens up everything. We’re just out there plugging leaks and masking our deficiencies play by play.

 

[joefrog]

What they are meaning is in the box, roughly from the tackles in on each side. As the DB's start to cheat up for run support even though they are not in the box at the start of the play, by the time the runner gets there, they have 8 to 9 in the box.

Look at the long scoring play by KU is the perfect example, the safety came flying up when he saw QB sweep or option, and the WR ran right by him, forcing the weak side safety to try and get over to cut off the receiver, he was a split second slow, and they have an 80-yard touchdown completion.

The made a great point Saturday night the KU staff looks all plays like that from around the country each week, and then pick and choose one or two for team.

Thank you!

Sounds like KU's staff looks to take chances and have fun.

Our's just wants to run clock and have a close game.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I think that has a LOT more to do with the play calling and Rocco. It’s like they don’t trust Rocco to do anything, so he usually just snaps it and throws quick outs all the time. He isn’t really allowed to read a defense and sit back there for any time at all.

Very, very few college quarterbacks are able to read defenses. That's why check with me and easy RPO reads are what everybody has gone to.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Very, very few college quarterbacks are able to read defenses. That's why check with me and easy RPO reads are what everybody has gone to.

QB's are taught to read defenses in high school, that is the whole point of the spread offense, is the WR's and QB reads whether its man or zone and adjust accordingly. Those principles have been around for 20 years and are taught at the high school level.
Rocco is doing a great job overall, his receivers still are dropping too many passes but for a red shirt freshman QB, the kid has done a great job. The pressure will be on him next season and the afterward to put what he learned as a freshman to use and grow from it. Stop making the silly mistakes and giving him more of an advanced offense.

I think people are forgetting Rocco is a red shirt freshman, Bean from KU Saturday night is a 6th year senior, experience, makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Clonefan94]

QB's are taught to read defenses in high school, that is the whole point of the spread offense, is the WR's and QB reads whether its man or zone and adjust accordingly. Those principles have been around for 20 years and are taught at the high school level.
Rocco is doing a great job overall, his receivers still are dropping too many passes but for a red shirt freshman QB, the kid has done a great job. The pressure will be on him next season and the afterward to put what he learned as a freshman to use and grow from it. Stop making the silly mistakes and giving him more of an advanced offense.

I think people are forgetting Rocco is a red shirt freshman, Bean from KU Saturday night is a 6th year senior, experience, makes all the difference in the world.

Age aside, I'd be interested to see what Rocoo could do with the kind of time Bean had. It really seemed like some guy would come free, right at Rocco every play. I thought we were past the days of completely whiffing on multiple blocks every play.

To all the people that say we go conservative and are too predictable, I'm not sure that is the case. Every player has a wrist band on. I think we are over-complicating what should be a simple thing to do. I get you aren't going to block every guy every time, but Kansas had way too many plays where they had guys completely unblocked. I think we need to get back to the classic Junior High style of O-line play. "Hey, if there is a guy in front of you, block him." Seems to me we have guys running all over to other spots, and in the mean time, the guy lined up right next to them gets a free shot at Rocco or the running back.

 

[CyGuy5]

The PAT.

This is the kind of stuff that makes message boards awesome. People throwing things out there that are ridiculous like KU was playing an 8 and 9 man front.

It's right up there with people thinking predicting "pass or run" 60% of the time correctly somehow means the offense is "predictable." Or that every time a RB runs the ball between the two tight ends it's basically all the same play, or at best everything is like their 7th grade football play book where it's just a bunch of man straight man blocking and dives to a hole.

They didn’t have 9 guys near the LOS that I remember, but almost the entire night they had 7-8 guys within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. Running into that played right into what KU wanted us to do, and it put the offense behind the sticks a ton.