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psychlone99

psychlone99

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Apr 6, 2006
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I posted this on CR, and thought it was pertinent to the ongoing discussion here. It's not directed at those who have expressed logical concerns. Instead, it's for those who have actually concluded that firing McDermott is the solution to our problems.


...I agree that recruiting is picking up (and should get better when the new practice facility is completed) and the last thing we need is more coaching turnover. I think some Iowa State fans have been fooled into thinking that coaching transitions should be smooth based on our recent [basketball] history.

As I mentioned in a post several weeks ago, of our last 4 basketball coaching transitions, only one has been "hostile" to the point of damaging the program. Frankly, we've been lucky when you really think about it.

Orr -> Floyd: When Orr retired, I seem to remember Floyd receiving the blessing of Iowa State's basketball "godfathers". It certainly wasn't a hostile coaching change and there wasn't any significant player turnover. (Floyd inherited seniors Hoiberg, Meyer, Michalik.)

Floyd -> Eustachy: Floyd headed to Chicago to replace the Zen master, and his good friend Eustachy was chosen as his replacement. Again, it wasn't a hostile coaching change and I don't recall any significant turnover. (Eustachy inherited Fizer, Rancik, Shirley, Stevie Johnson.)

Eustachy -> Morgan: Eustachy got canned, so this was definitely a hostile coaching change. However, immediate damage was limited (not to say long-term damage wasn't done) as BVDV chose to hire one of Eustachy's assistants/lead recruiter. Again, no significant turnover. (Morgan inherited Sullivan, Homan, Vroman, and retained Stinson, Blalock, and Staple for obvious reasons.)

Morgan -> McDermott: For the first time since at least 1980 (I don't know much about the Nance/Orr transition), Iowa State basketball goes through it's first truly hostile coaching change with immediate and lasting damage done to the program. We all know the story, so there no point in rehashing it. (Mac inherited Clark... Jessan Gray, Chris Caesar, Jeff Bergstrom??? I don't even remember.)

The point is, another HOSTILE coaching change (firing McDermott) would be an absolute disaster for Iowa State basketball, guaranteeing continued scuffling for years to come. So, as Poster X suggests, I'm just going to "relax and hang with Mac." Besides, I think both Nostradamus and the Aztec calendar predicted that the world would end in 2012, so really we don't have TIME for another coaching change. :biglaugh:
 
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kingcy said:
Orr didnt like the Floyd hire. People were also upset and the Morgan hire. Good history other than that.
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One clarification: The main point of my post has to do with the effects of each coaching transition on the program and the teams that were inherited by the incoming coach. As you mentioned, there were many fans who didn't think Morgan was a wise hire (I guess you could say that there was some fan "hostility"), but that doesn't change the fact that he inherited a pretty cushy setup in terms of personnel, etc.
 
I don't think McD should be fired right now, but just because it might be hostile shouldn't be a reason not to fire a coach. If it were, Morgan shouldn't have been fired.
 
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Great post. I'm sure there will be debate about the Orr-Floyd transition, but the point is pretty on point.

The great point in the post was this: outside of Orr....Floyd, Eustachy and Morgan had solid teams, NCAA caliber teams (strong seniors, good talent pool, leadership) to inherit. McD had, well, not that somuch. Some may argue that he ran off good talent (Wesley) and other talent didn't like the Morgan divorce and prospect of Mac's system (Carr, Taggart, Degand)- or decided to make the leap to playing in Turkey (Stinson, Blalock). But i agree with the original post that its HARDER THIS TIME. The journey will be tough, but it will be rewarding and i'm absolutely positive Greg will give us a long-term, sustained history in the spirit of Johnny...except Greg is much younger. So longer runway.
 
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psychlone99 said:
Eustachy -> Morgan: Eustachy got canned, so this was definitely a hostile coaching change. However, immediate damage was limited (not to say long-term damage wasn't done) as BVDV chose to hire one of Eustachy's assistants/lead recruiter. Again, no significant turnover. (Morgan inherited Sullivan, Homan, Vroman, and retained Stinson, Blalock, and Staple for obvious reasons.)
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Isn't this when Haluska left? I think the long-term effects of that were more than we will ever know.
If he doesn't leave, Morgan is still our coach:wideeyed:
Maybe we are better off, maybe not
 
I would have to agree, for the most part.

The Morgan firing was a brutal coaching change, about as bad as it could be, where the other coaching changes were really not that bad. LE's firing was not as bad as it could have been, because LE knew he had problems, he didn't put up a kicking fight like WM (hiring WM helped too).
 
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If we didn't hire Morgan we wouldn't have gotten Stinson or Blalock as he was their recruiter. but I can see where you are coming from. McDermott basically started with no experience players besides Rashon Clark. Where as all the other coaches had some talent.
 
CloneAggie said:
I don't think McD should be fired right now, but just because it might be hostile shouldn't be a reason not to fire a coach. If it were, Morgan shouldn't have been fired.
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There is a difference between Morgan and McD. Not many liked Morgan and there was a bit of a scandal at the end, which ISU would have likely suffered even more NCAA sanctions if they hadn't fired Morgan.

For record alone Morgan would not have been fired so it's hard to make a argument for firing McD this season.
 
wartknight said:
Isn't this when Haluska left? I think the long-term effects of that were more than we will ever know.
If he doesn't leave, Morgan is still our coach:wideeyed:
Maybe we are better off, maybe not
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You can play the ifs all day long. If Mike Taylor doesnt get in trouble, and plays last year then Wes could still be on this team and we would be going to the NCAA tourny.

But yes Mac did have a lot less to work with than the others.
 
jaretac said:
The Morgan firing was a brutal coaching change, about as bad as it could be, where the other coaching changes were really not that bad.
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The firing of Snyder at Mizzou was an equally bad firing. Nevertheless, Missouri has turned things around alot quicker than has Iowa State.
 
alaskaguy said:
The firing of Snyder at Mizzou was an equally bad firing. Nevertheless, Missouri has turned things around alot quicker than has Iowa State.
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Snyder was an absolutely awful coach...good recruiter...horrible, horrible coach...that guy could do less with more than about anyone out there...
 
The Nance/Orr transition wasn't anything huge...ISU was so bad at basketball at the time, that it wouldn't have made much difference if anyone had left. And it was really before the day when players transferred when a coach left. Also, Orr had been to a national championship game, which commanded respect.

Plus, the players took out Orr on the town the night he came for his interview, and got him pretty drunk. So i'm thinkin' there was some quality bonding between new coach and team then.
 
ppclone said:
Great post. I'm sure there will be debate about the Orr-Floyd transition, but the point is pretty on point.

The great point in the post was this: outside of Orr....Floyd, Eustachy and Morgan had solid teams, NCAA caliber teams (strong seniors, good talent pool, leadership) to inherit. McD had, well, not that somuch. Some may argue that he ran off good talent (Wesley) and other talent didn't like the Morgan divorce and prospect of Mac's system (Carr, Taggart, Degand)- or decided to make the leap to playing in Turkey (Stinson, Blalock). But i agree with the original post that its HARDER THIS TIME. The journey will be tough, but it will be rewarding and i'm absolutely positive Greg will give us a long-term, sustained history in the spirit of Johnny...except Greg is much younger. So longer runway.
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One of the best things Orr did was retire when he did. He very easily could have (and wanted to) stay one more year for Hoiberg/Meyer/Michalik/Beechum's last year. That team was so SR dominated that a new coach would have had to basically start from scratch after Orr retired. Of course, he wanted Hallihan to be the next HC, but Gene Smith wasn't going for that. He made the right decision with Floyd.
 
I'm willing to give Greg Mac another four years to get me to the ncaa tournament....

Just think how long it took Tom and Keno Davis to get Drake to the tourney...And Tom and Keno know how to recruit and coach!!!
 
Jim Hallihan was a great assistant, but came to Orr's staff with a losing record as a head coach. Gene Smith made the right decision. Johnny deserved one more year with that senior class, but he is such a class guy, he agreed to step down a year early so Floyd could make a smooth transition, with a year to recruit Bankhead, Cato, Pratt, and Willoughby.
 
I have to agree with alot of the OP. Although, I'm very critical of McDermott, I'm in no way wanting him to be straight up fired. First, I doubt we could afford it financially, 2nd we'd gain the reputation for pulling the trigger very quickly (which makes it tough to bring in good coaches). Finally, we definitely don't need another hostile coaching transition. I do think that if he fails to show improvement over the rest of his contract, then we shouldn't renew it, which is alot different than just firing him out of the blue (like Morgan was).
 
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