We pay most of our coaches more than they bring in as football and men's basketball (and maybe women's) are the only moneymakers. And not one of those coaches achieves anywhere near the level of Cael in any sport. Good grief, he's been here only 3 years with young teams and he's criticized because he hasn't won a national championship? Next year would be the first year he's had any decent number of seniors in the lineup. I have a feeling we'll be looking back and also appreciating what Cael did for us as a coach.
Cael did NOT underachieve
- Thread starter CYKOFAN
- Start date
Cyclonesrule91-It shouldn't be any secret if you've read many of my posts the last few years that I haven't been much of a Pollard fan since he fired Morgan without giving him a chance to change whatever Pollard didn't like and give him a 4th year, which he certainly deserved based on the first 3. Even Stinson made a comment in the paper last week that he looks back and wonders just how good that team could have been with the whole team back and the addition of DeGand, Stinnett and Westbrook (putting an end to the popular rumor that Stinson wasn't coming back even if Morgan wasn't fired). Pollard's made a lot of changes, but as a 35 year season ticketholder in football and basketball I can't remember a time when I've paid more and got less for my money than the Pollard era so far. Now we've lost an ISU legend in the only sport we have a high level of respect on a national level. Call it bad karma, bad luck, or an inexperienced a.d. making bad decisions, the current state of ISU athletics is close to an all time low, and just who do you think should take responsibility for that?
I'm new to "dishing" Pollard. You'll note there is not a single unsupportive post from me about him until our darkest hour yesterday.
The most important measure of success of an athletic program is success. Pollard has not even maintained our mediocre-at-best level of success before his tenure. We are well into his mess now and 2009 looks like No Bowl, No NCAA 64, No Cael. Hmmm... how are we better than before?
Pollard sold me on hope - but there is no substance, and this debacle with Cael is the final straw.
Cael never said that, at least publicly. It's a quote that Pollard attributed to him. Even if Cael said that to Jamie, why Jamie would repeat it to the media is strange to say the least. It's like announcing to all future coaching candidates that a top-5 wrestling program is not as solid of a program as one that has never won anything:
“In the end, Cael said that he appreciated everything Iowa State and our fans had done for him but he believes winning a national championship will be easier at Penn State. He said the high school talent in Pennsylvania and surrounding states is the best in the country and the kids in that area grow up wanting to wrestle for the Nittany Lions.â€
yeah, if that's not a CYA speech I don't know what is. And it's worked as the simpletons cannot get by the words at their face value and rage about Cael being a traitor.
So you're mad because Pollard fired a guy who obviously had no business coaching D1 basketball? Stinson should have stuck around and found out. That's got nothing to do with Pollard. If Morgan was such a great coach, he would be coaching somewhere. Not installing satellite dishes.
Of ALL the decisions that Pollard has made, firing Wayne Morgan was clearly the most solid.
We haven't lost an ISU legend. He's still an ISU legend. He has just moved on to - in his mind - bigger and better things. It would be insanely irresponsible of JP to get into a bidding war - if that's what this is about - with a school that draws more than twice what ISU does in football, and has deep Big 10 pockets to boot. Or, if you are to believe Cael's public comments, it's not possible to move the state of Iowa to Pennsylvania and spend outrageous amounts of money on a non-revenue program whilst in the middle of an arms race between Big 10 schools.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how JP has ANYTHING to do with Cael moving on. He's gotten as much support here as any non-revenue coach can possibly expect given ISU's resources. If Cael isn't sticking around, that's on Cael - perhaps partly on the current state of NCAA athletic budgets - but I don't see how you can put it on JP.
Cael quit on ISU. Plain and simple. He had his price, and Penn State paid it. He's moving on because he's got an ego too big for ISU. Even IF he's leaving in part because he disagreed with JP, that's on Cael too, for not being the bigger man.
I totally agree with this as far as pay. He was the highest paid, and was at arguably the 2nd best program in the country over the past 5 years. Just look at all the people who complain about Ferentz pay. I guarantee you , even if Iowa does over pay him, Iowa is still making money from their program. ISU wrestling is not. To me is simply comes down to how much someone bleeds the colors of their school. Cael apparently didn't bleed Cardinal (Maroon?) and Gold.
Yes but ZERO national championships and that is the very thing he spoke of when hired. He said there is no other bar than national titles at ISU. He got 0.
Lastly, I really hate when people talk about how Cael won back-back-back Big 12 titles. Why the HELL do we still call it the Big 12 when only 5 teams even have WRESTLING. Congrats, 4 teams WEREN'T better than you. Here is a conference title.
In fact, the Nebraska coach has won the last 2 "coach of the year" awards in the Big 12. So that means his peers thought Cael was the 2nd best coach (out of 5) in the league.
From Big12Sports.com
For the first time in conference history, two were crowned as the Big 12 Wrestling Champions. Both Iowa State and Nebraska ended up with 70 team points to share the title, while Missouri (55) placed third followed by Oklahoma State (40) and Oklahoma (38.5).
I don't think you should be able to even call it the Big 12 when only 5 teams compete. That is an absolute Joke. Just like wrestling is becoming. It'll be a club sport in 15 years.
I agree, Cael did a nice job with wrestling program and he appeared to be a good recruiter: Weatherman, Dave Taylor.
BUT, we still had the 2nd best program in the STATE. ISU Folded like a Cheap Chair every time we wrestled IOWA. Duals, Midlands, National Duals, Nationals. I Hope Cael got $500K to go to PSU, it would be an easy call if someone is throwing that much $$$ around.
It will be very interesting to see who we can get. I think ISU wrestling would be an easy sell.
BUT, we still had the 2nd best program in the STATE. ISU Folded like a Cheap Chair every time we wrestled IOWA. Duals, Midlands, National Duals, Nationals. I Hope Cael got $500K to go to PSU, it would be an easy call if someone is throwing that much $$$ around.
It will be very interesting to see who we can get. I think ISU wrestling would be an easy sell.
I don't hold that against Cael because heads-up matches the last two years have not been ISU vs. Iowa. They've been ISU vs. Iowa & Virginia Tech. When Brands took the Iowa job he inherited a good team and he brought the best wrestlers from another good team with him. Just think about how good ISU would be if we could keep all of our current team and add 4 or 5 of the best wrestlers from, say, Minnesota, to it.
jumbopackage- Morgan is almost 60 years old and very likely didn't want to move and start all over again with the travel, pressure, and some of the ridiculous criticism from fans like he got here. He's got a young family and maybe he didn't want to uproot them again, especially if he had opportunities in Ames as he obviously did. And let's see, this guy you say wasn't a d-1 coach had 3 winning seasons, won 4 post season games, beat 4 top 8 teams at home and on the road, and was 2-1 against GMac's best 3 teams. Want me to run thru GMac's accomplishments in 3 years? Spew all you want about Morgan, his record speaks for itself and it's light years better than what Gmac has given us. Seriously how can anybody criticize Morgan after what we've seen from our basketball program the last 3 years. And aren't you a little concerned when all but 2 coaches in our athletic department have either quit or been fired in the last few years?
Morgan was awful and he has said he'd like to coach more. No job available for a coach of his ability though....no surprise.
Look, I didn't like Morgan either - but you need to stop badmouthing the guy.
Wayne won. Greg losses.
What do you hire a coach for again?
So what you are telling us is that when Morgan said he wanted to get another head coaching position, it would be only if he didn't have to move from Ames???? I guess that would explain why he hasn't gotten a job yet. Now it makes sense.
Since there has been an ever so slight hijacking of this thread to another "Wayne vs Greg" show.....for those who just don't like Wayne, maybe before you throw out the obligatory "he's just a satellite dish man" as your bases in argument....you may want to step back and take pause. Because it isn't exactly a screaming endorsement of Greg when a man of such low basketball knowledge can achieve a winning percentage in three years at ISU that he may never reach.
Wayne won less and less every year he was here - each year under his coaching (and each year removed from LE), we had a worse record. You can argue the same thing about GMac, but I don't think anyone can say Wayne was taking the program forwards.
You are close, Brands brought back mostly IOWA wrestlers with him. Metcalf was the lone one who wasn't from Iowa. Cael basically said you can't win with IOWA wrestlers and that the East Coast has the best wrestlers. Well, Those Iowa wrestlers have done pretty good under Brands and have beaten ISU at will. Penn State hasn't done crap with their supposely better wrestlers.
I have said on many occasions that Cael while a great wrestler has not instilled the KILLER instinct in these kids. ISU is not MEAN enough as evidenced by our collapse in the Big 12 (5) Championships and the Midlands.
IF ISU had Brands' tenacity, we would of won a national Championship, DOMINATED the Big 5 Tournament, and Midlands.
Cael, Love ya pal, but hold on to your Extra Small Jock-straps as ISU and Iowa are going to take you out for a spin.... You will not like the view. AND, We will do it with many IOWA wrestlers. The Nittany Lions are going to be Neutered. BTW. I was under the impression that MT. Nittany was a well..... Mountain. Hell, its only 1900 feet high and the surrounding area is 1100-1200 feet above sea level. That means its only a friggin 700 foot hill. Here in Cedar Rapids we have a "DUMP" that we just closed thats almost that high. The next time the announcers talk about Mt. Nittany, think of our DUMP here in Cedar Rapids. Therin lies the similarity.......
I have said on many occasions that Cael while a great wrestler has not instilled the KILLER instinct in these kids. ISU is not MEAN enough as evidenced by our collapse in the Big 12 (5) Championships and the Midlands.
IF ISU had Brands' tenacity, we would of won a national Championship, DOMINATED the Big 5 Tournament, and Midlands.
Cael, Love ya pal, but hold on to your Extra Small Jock-straps as ISU and Iowa are going to take you out for a spin.... You will not like the view. AND, We will do it with many IOWA wrestlers. The Nittany Lions are going to be Neutered. BTW. I was under the impression that MT. Nittany was a well..... Mountain. Hell, its only 1900 feet high and the surrounding area is 1100-1200 feet above sea level. That means its only a friggin 700 foot hill. Here in Cedar Rapids we have a "DUMP" that we just closed thats almost that high. The next time the announcers talk about Mt. Nittany, think of our DUMP here in Cedar Rapids. Therin lies the similarity.......
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Whoa - hold on there!
You do realize LE's last two teams finished almost at the bottom of the Big XII, with records of 4-12 and 5-11?
Wayne's first two conference records were 7-9, then 9-7.
I'd say Wayne dramatically improved the program from where he found it, don't you?