Big 12 Embarrassing

[HFCS]

I gave both credit to TCU's Defense and offense. Simply said Oregon losing their starting QB and Center played a huge role in them scoring 31 in 1h and so little in 2h.

You realize TCU is probably the most injury decimated team in the country right? This is why zero people believe you are actually an ISU or Big 12 fan.

They had 6 of their original defensive starters out for the season, possibly the best QB in the nation and possibly the best WR in the nation out just off the top of my head. There's no "injury" argument against this TCU team.

 

[c.y.c.l.o.n.e.s]

Their QB aint Boykin and at least they had him for a while.

Not getting into the middle of this fight but just wanted to point out that Vernon Adams is probably just as good as Boyken. During the season, the Ducks were 2-3 when he was out/playing hurt and 7-0 when he was healthy. Some scouting services have him rated as a higher draft pick at qb.

 

[twojman]

You realize TCU is probably the most injury decimated team in the country right? This is why zero people believe you are actually an ISU or Big 12 fan.

They had 6 of their original defensive starters out for the season, possibly the best QB in the nation and possibly the best WR in the nation out just off the top of my head. There's no "injury" argument against this TCU team.

In addition to the normal defensive injuries TCU had all season, there were 4 offensive starters out for yesterday. 2 OL (C & G) as well as Boykin and Doctson.

 

[isucy86]

Docson, Boykin, every Baylor QB and Linwood...those are pretty catastrophic injury/off the field losses

I know they won their bowls anyway, but without those issues I think it's probably TCU/Baylor in the playoff or like last year where TCU got snubbed but everyone acknowledged them as the #2 team anyway.

The problem for league perception (outside of having almost no representation on CFP committee) continues to be two things.

-OU and Texas not coming through the way Alabama and Ohio State come through.
-Math. People just can't get that a 10 team league producing 3 elite teams is like a 14 team league producing 4 or 5. The top of the conference really wasn't the problem this year, it was the bottom and middle that were a little down. KSU, Tech, ISU...those are the teams that underperformed if you look at some more objective metrics.

Giving up an average of 44ppg in 7 bowl games is a pretty objective metric. Right now Big12 teams have ONE way of beating their opponents and that is out scoring them. Teams like Bama, Clemson and OSU can outscore their opponents. Additionally, their defenses can disrupt opponent offenses to also win games.

 

[JackTrice3]

Docson, Boykin, every Baylor QB and Linwood...those are pretty catastrophic injury/off the field losses

I know they won their bowls anyway, but without those issues I think it's probably TCU/Baylor in the playoff or like last year where TCU got snubbed but everyone acknowledged them as the #2 team anyway.

The problem for league perception (outside of having almost no representation on CFP committee) continues to be two things.

-OU and Texas not coming through the way Alabama and Ohio State come through.
-Math. People just can't get that a 10 team league producing 3 elite teams is like a 14 team league producing 4 or 5. The top of the conference really wasn't the problem this year, it was the bottom and middle that were a little down. KSU, Tech, ISU...those are the teams that underperformed if you look at some more objective metrics.

I would argue that the Big 12 had 3 "Elite" teams this year. I would also argue that the Big 10 had 4-5 "Elite" teams this year. What do you consider an elite team? I'm not trying to make this a Big 12/Big10 thing but you're not doing yourself any favors.

Is an "elite" team a team that finishes the regular season in the top 10?

Big 10: 3
Big 12: 1

That's 10% of the Big 12 Math Boy and 21% for the Big 10.

Do you have another way of describing what you consider an "Elite" team?

 

[JackTrice3]

You realize TCU is probably the most injury decimated team in the country right? This is why zero people believe you are actually an ISU or Big 12 fan.

They had 6 of their original defensive starters out for the season, possibly the best QB in the nation and possibly the best WR in the nation out just off the top of my head. There's no "injury" argument against this TCU team.

That's way too many "Possibly's"

I like facts, math boy. The fact is that Oregon was absolutely putting a clinic on TCU with their starting quarterback. That all changed the second he left the game, along with the center.

 

[HFCS]

Giving up an average of 44ppg in 7 bowl games is a pretty objective metric. Right now Big12 teams have ONE way of beating their opponents and that is out scoring them. Teams like Bama, Clemson and OSU can outscore their opponents. Additionally, their defenses can disrupt opponent offenses to also win games.

I'm not going to argue with that, but I just don't see how non-SEC conferences did much better.

Objectively the Big Ten was probably one of the most overrated conferences in the history of rankings. They were ranked much higher than the SEC with 5 teams in the top 14. The #3, #5, and #13 all got blown out much worse than any Big 12 team.

The Pac 12 did not look good outside of Stanford.

The ACC did not look good outside of Clemson.

If there was ever a year for the SEC to stick its chest out it's this year. The committee criminally underrated them with 2 top 15 teams saying the B1G deserved 5 teams ranked that high. I can't remember a year where Sagarin ratings were so drastically better than human polling and the committee loaded with B1G members is the subtle hand guiding it.

 

[HFCS]

That's way too many "Possibly's"

I like facts, math boy. The fact is that Oregon was absolutely putting a clinic on TCU with their starting quarterback. That all changed the second he left the game, along with the center.

It's ZERO "possibly's".

TCU is the most injury plagued team in college football and you're saying they won because of injuries. You look like a complete fool. I honestly can't remember a more injury plagued team and it's amazing they'll finish in the top 10.

 

[UraMallas]

Okay, JackTrice3 has shown his true colors and is outed as a troll. Time to close this baby down.

 

[HFCS]

I would argue that the Big 12 had 3 "Elite" teams this year. I would also argue that the Big 10 had 4-5 "Elite" teams this year. What do you consider an elite team? I'm not trying to make this a Big 12/Big10 thing but you're not doing yourself any favors.

Is an "elite" team a team that finishes the regular season in the top 10?

Big 10: 3
Big 12: 1

That's 10% of the Big 12 Math Boy and 21% for the Big 10.

Do you have another way of describing what you consider an "Elite" team?

The whole point is that the ratings were idiotic. The Big 10 was overrated with 5 teams in the top 14 and the SEC only 2 in the top 18.

Compare what a computer comes up with to what the committee and the polls that are affected by the committee came to.

 

[twojman]

That's way too many "Possibly's"

I like facts, math boy. The fact is that Oregon was absolutely putting a clinic on TCU with their starting quarterback. That all changed the second he left the game, along with the center.

You realize TCU was without their All-American WR, one of the top QB's in the country, their starting center and a starting guard...just on offense. They were also down like 6 defensive starters. TCU had like 2 days to change an entire months worth of game planning.

TCU had 22 different starters injured and missed entire seasons or full games. Patterson should have been national coach of the year IMO.

 

[JackTrice3]

Not getting into the middle of this fight but just wanted to point out that Vernon Adams is probably just as good as Boyken. During the season, the Ducks were 2-3 when he was out/playing hurt and 7-0 when he was healthy. Some scouting services have him rated as a higher draft pick at qb.

Exactly this. Don't let someone who's unwilling to look outside the box at factual statistics tell you what is right and wrong.

Boykin is the 20th best passing quarterback in the country. That's statistically speaking, that's based off facts, truths, what really happened. Not what one homer is imagining. So to say he's likely the best quarterback in the country is quite a stretch.

 

[HFCS]

You realize TCU was without their All-American WR, one of the top QB's in the country, their starting center and a starting guard...just on offense. They were also down like 6 defensive starters. TCU had like 2 days to change an entire months worth of game planning.

TCU had 22 different starters injured and missed entire seasons or full games. Patterson should have been national coach of the year IMO.

He's making one of the more crazy arguments I've seen argued and that's saying a lot given some of our trolls.

 

[dirtyninety]

I'm embarrassed of the Iowa partisan Caucus process.

 

[GTO]

JackTrice3 must have been disappointed not to be nominated for the Troll of the Year Clonie, so he's starting his campaign early for 2016.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

TCU had 22 different starters injured and missed entire seasons or full games. Patterson should have been national coach of the year IMO.

Why give it to him when you can give it to a guy who ran through a schedule full of patsies and got crushed when they played a team with actual top 15 talent?

 

[twojman]

I would argue that the Big 12 had 3 "Elite" teams this year. I would also argue that the Big 10 had 4-5 "Elite" teams this year. What do you consider an elite team? I'm not trying to make this a Big 12/Big10 thing but you're not doing yourself any favors.

Is an "elite" team a team that finishes the regular season in the top 10?

Big 10: 3
Big 12: 1

That's 10% of the Big 12 Math Boy and 21% for the Big 10.

Do you have another way of describing what you consider an "Elite" team?

Big 10 teams played 8 conference games vs. 9 for the Big 12. There is an extra game that Big 12 teams lose compared to B1G teams. Big 12 teams (before bowls) played an average of 9.6 P5 schools, B1G played an average of 8.3 P5 schools. Mix that with the unbalanced schedules that teams like Wisconsin, Northwestern and Iowa used to fluff records in conference and it is easy to make teams look 'elite'.

 

[JackTrice3]

The whole point is that the ratings were idiotic. The Big 10 was overrated with 5 teams in the top 14 and the SEC only 2 in the top 18.

Compare what a computer comes up with to what the committee and the polls that are affected by the committee came to.

Those are your opinions. Nothing you've posted is factual information other than the injuries and Oregon had just as many injuries to their key players at TCU. The backup played a great game, did everything they could have imagined he could do to help put them in the situation to win the game. I gave him credit and TCU credit in my original post today. I don't understand what your arguing. TCU was the better team and deserved to win that game yesterday.

That absolutely doesn't mean it still wasn't a dismal embarrassing bowl season for the Big 12. Which was my ONLY point from the start of this. You've turned it all these different directions because you simply don't have facts, you have assumptions and probably's.

 

[HFCS]

Exactly this. Don't let someone who's unwilling to look outside the box at factual statistics tell you what is right and wrong.

Boykin is the 20th best passing quarterback in the country. That's statistically speaking, that's based off facts, truths, what really happened. Not what one homer is imagining. So to say he's likely the best quarterback in the country is quite a stretch.

20th best passing QB who can run like Boykin is an absolutely electric player. He's in the discussion, they lost him with just a couple days to prepare. On top of that TCU has lost TONS of amazing players including Docson who definitely was in the conversation for best WR.

I'll keep having this argument with you all day because it exposes what a troll you are. You're the most pathetic troll because you have the combination of someone who gets banned and creates new screen names, and you pretend to be an ISU fan (we have several of these). I pity you...and yet I am entertained by your psychosis.

 

[JackTrice3]

He's making one of the more crazy arguments I've seen argued and that's saying a lot given some of our trolls.

What do you think my argument is exactly? My post earlier wasn't making an argument for anything other than the fact that the Big 12 had a poor bowl season.

If you're assuming I'm arguing that the only reason Oregon lost was because they lost their QB and Center you're wrong. I simply said that played a large part in what happened in the 2h of that game offensively for Oregon. If that's your stance are you saying that TCU coming back and winning yesterday was enough to justify that the Big 12 had a successful bowl season?