Teams
Forum List
Toggle sidebar

Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

I just don't see how you can compare the two because because the vast difference in experience. I think they both look really, really good.
 
I wouldn't want anyone but Fred to be our coach, but anyone who claims he's better than Self, or even has the potential to be better than Self, is kidding themselves.

Self has the potential to become college basketball's all-time wins leader by the time he's done. Fred's 41 and has 78 wins, Self is 51 and has 507. Fred could go undefeated for the next decade and still have fewer wins than Self. Self hasn't had a losing season in almost 19 years. The guy is a freak.

About the only argument that "equalizes" these coaches is that one's at Kansas while the other's at Iowa State. If they swapped places, who would be more successful?
 
Would be interesting to see what Hoiberg could do with the players you can get at KU and what Self could do with the talent you can get at ISU.
 
carvers4math said:
Would be interesting to see what Hoiberg could do with the players you can get at KU and what Self could do with the talent you can get at ISU.
Click to expand...

I feel like there's a large portion of people posting in this thread who think KU is Self's first head coaching stop.
 
carvers4math said:
Would be interesting to see what Hoiberg could do with the players you can get at KU and what Self could do with the talent you can get at ISU.
Click to expand...

Great minds like a think (see the last sentence in my comments right above yours).

I'd also like to add that my defense of Self is based purely on the common yardsticks that people use to judge coaches (winning percentage, tournament appearances, and the like). If you start delving into things like player development, in-game scenarios, talent evaluation, and other metrics, I'm sure every coach would be painted with a slightly different brush than they are now.
 
twocoach said:
One coach for the next 10 years? Self and it isn't close. If you only have ten years then you will need a guy that can get guys in the door that are elite talents and coach them up as quick as possible. I have not seen a coach as good at getting guys developed over the course of their careers as Self.

People say "he has all elite recruits". Go look at the roster he rolled out there in the national title game in 2012. Some were To 50 ranked recruits that were major projects. Withey was the worst big I have ever seen in his first year at Kansas. I doubted that he would be able to give good minutes by the end of his career let alone be what he was in '12. Taylor and EJ are friggin' MORONS. How Self got a team led by that knucklehead Taylor to a title game is beyond me. Guy has the smarts of the ball he was tossing into the stands every other play. Kevin Young was shagging balls for a womens JUCO team before landing at Kansas. NO BUSINESS being a starter on a Final Four team. Great heart, great motor, but the offensive skills of a YMCA player. First off the bench was a walk on Zach Efron lookalike.
Click to expand...

Kevin Young was a bench player that year.
 
jkclone said:
Multiple ways to answer.

Self has had a better career
Hoiberg has more potential

I think Hoiberg is a better coach when you look back at both of them in the future. Assuming Hoiberg stays and continues his success he will be one of the all time great coaches as well as Self.
Click to expand...

omgwtf.gif


wuhwhat.gif
 
Self is great. One of the best. I think the three best are Self, Izzo, and coach K.

Hoiberg has a chance to be an amazing coach but he is not there yet.
 
carvers4math said:
Would be interesting to see what Hoiberg could do with the players you can get at KU and what Self could do with the talent you can get at ISU.
Click to expand...
Considering that Self took both Tulsa and Illinois further in the tourney than Hoiberg has been able to take ISU, I'd say Self. Self took Tulsa to their first ever Elite Eight and the list of notable Tulsa head coaches that were not able to accomplish that are Nolan Richardson, Tubby Smith and Buzz Peterson. Tulsa lost in the Elite Eight to Carolina by a mere four points. Hoiberg still hasn't made it past the first weekend of the tourney. I can guarantee you that the players Hoiberg has had at Iowa State are a LOT better than the players Self had at Tulsa.
 
twocoach said:
Considering that Self took both Tulsa and Illinois further in the tourney than Hoiberg has been able to take ISU, I'd say Self. Self took Tulsa to their first ever Elite Eight and the list of notable Tulsa head coaches that were not able to accomplish that are Nolan Richardson, Tubby Smith and Buzz Peterson. Tulsa lost in the Elite Eight to Carolina by a mere four points. Hoiberg still hasn't made it past the first weekend of the tourney. I can guarantee you that the players Hoiberg has had at Iowa State are a LOT better than the players Self had at Tulsa.
Click to expand...

Buzz Peterson is flattered by this post.
 
CycloneErik said:
Your three still leave out important names like Dean Smith, John Wooden, Frank McGuire, and (ugh) Bob Knight.
Self is an all-time great. I'm not sure why anyone argues differently.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant active coaches.
 
jkclone said:
I think Hoiberg is a better coach when you look back at both of them in the future. Assuming Hoiberg stays and continues his success he will be one of the all time great coaches as well as Self.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see that as much as anyone, but we are literally decades away from making that type of judgment. If Fred coaches until he's 70 and continues to average 20-23 wins per season, that would put him solidly inside the 600 win club and he'll be worthy of his "all time great coaches" designation.

However, I don't think you realize just how incredibly difficult that is to attain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Help Support Us

Become a patron
Top Bottom
Back