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Thanks for proving me wrong Big Rob

Z

ZRF

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Jan 3, 2015
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I often get a lot of flak about my previous issues with Robert Jones' play, more specifically with his over-utilization and playing time. I was often accused of having a personal vendetta against him, something that simply wasn't accurate. Statistically he was the WORST player during Big 12 play who received significant minutes. He was an offensive blackhole, a player who didn't possess the footspeed to rotate, and the stats bore that out. Moreso I was frustrated at Otz for (often) unnecessarily playing him a large number of minutes when we had a player (for most of the season) in Osun who was wildly effective when he played. While I do think Osun had (for whatever reasons) conditioning/durability limitations I still feel he was prematurely removed from games and could have (often) logged more minutes. As the stats show he was one of the best players in the league when he was on he floor.

Quite frankly I thought Robert was tapped out. Everyone knows he's not the most athletically gifted player and after being here a few years, being an upper classman, I thought he simply was who he was. But with a LOT of hard work and a headier on court presence (quicker moves and less forcing down low) he has proved me wrong. He has went from a -3.8 conference BPM, far and away the worst in the league in 2023, to a 4.4 BPM in 2024. While he's certainly not one of the better players in the league, that number makes him extremely valuable, when utilized correctly.

Thanks for proving me wrong Bob. Not wrong about your play last year, but wrong that I didn't think this sort of improvement was even possible. If there was ever a testament to what hard work can do THIS is it. Without spending the time to look I'm guessing this sort of BPM improvement, arguably in an even tougher conference, would be tough to find.


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Marcelason78 said:
Third paragraph was all that was needed.
Click to expand...

It would have been if I wasn't constantly accused of having an axe to grind with Bob. I never did. If anything that axe was always with Otz (as Bob doesn't control how much he's played).
 
Thanks for proving me wrong ZRF. I thought that your utilization of this board last year and most of this year was a waste of effort on my part. I didn't think this much improvement could be made by you. If there ever was a testament to what thinking before typing could do this is it. I'm not wrong about your previous posts, I was wrong that I didn't think this much improvement could be made by you.
 
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CoachHines3 said:
View attachment 123068

View attachment 123069
Click to expand...

With Bob it's always best to use higher quality of comp stats as he's always fared well against the crap teams.

The difference between last year and this year is his play/value against those higher quality comp teams. I was lazy, so the easiest way to do that is limit the stats to conference only games since the league is so tough. It's also the most relevant as the South Dakota State CC Poly Techs of the world aren't playing in March.
 
ZRF said:
I often get a lot of flak about my previous issues with Robert Jones' play, more specifically with his over-utilization and playing time. I was often accused of having a personal vendetta against him, something that simply wasn't accurate. Statistically he was the WORST player during Big 12 play who received significant minutes. He was an offensive blackhole, a player who didn't possess the footspeed to rotate, and the stats bore that out. Moreso I was frustrated at Otz for (often) unnecessarily playing him a large number of minutes when we had a player (for most of the season) in Osun who was wildly effective when he played. While I do think Osun had (for whatever reasons) conditioning/durability limitations I still feel he was prematurely removed from games and could have (often) logged more minutes. As the stats show he was one of the best players in the league when he was on he floor.

Quite frankly I thought Robert was tapped out. Everyone knows he's not the most athletically gifted player and after being here a few years, being an upper classman, I thought he simply was who he was. But with a LOT of hard work and a headier on court presence (quicker moves and less forcing down low) he has proved me wrong. He has went from a -3.8 conference BPM, far and away the worst in the league in 2023, to a 4.4 BPM in 2024. While he's certainly not one of the better players in the league, that number makes him extremely valuable, when utilized correctly.

Thanks for proving me wrong Bob. Not wrong about your play last year, but wrong that I didn't think this sort of improvement was even possible. If there was ever a testament to what hard work can do THIS is it. Without spending the time to look I'm guessing this sort of BPM improvement, arguably in an even tougher conference, would be tough to find.


barttorvik.com

T-Rank Player Stats - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank

T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.
barttorvik.com

barttorvik.com

T-Rank Player Stats - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank

T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.
barttorvik.com
Click to expand...
If you want to fully apologize, its Rob and not Bob.
 
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HarryClone said:
Smokes, that 2P% jump is huge! Felt like he was converting more this year but up 20% overall (17% in conference) is wild.
Click to expand...

I'd attribute most of that to not forcing shots (the lower the shoulder forced line drive BS) and dunking the ball. Too bad Melvin Ejim couldn't figure out a dunk was a higher percentage shot than an unecessary layup, especially when said layups were routinely blown.

In all serious he's dunking the ball a lot more this year. I bet that's responsible for a 1/3 of the jump. He's also shooting the ball LESS per minute played (.24 vs .26). While that might not seem like a lot, that's 7 percent less. I can almost guarantee that 7 percent were all terrible shots/decisions.

Playing smarter (not forcing) and more effective (dunking vs missing layups) is a huge reason for his offensive efficiency improvements.
 
I thought Big Rob was just a big body that offered a little bit of rebounding and not a whole lot else when he got here.

But holy s*** did that guy work his tail off to get better in all areas. And I mean all areas. He is now one of my favorite glue guys in recent memory.
 
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Was it ZRF that asked this football season something like 'what is so negative about saying a player sucks'?

'I got falsely accused of having a personal vendetta against a player and here's a paragraph listing disparaging remarks' is kinda the point.

Personal vendetta? Likely not.

Perceived obsession with one player when there's so much more that goes into the success of a team and deflecting an overlying theme of how sports goes? That's hard to argue.

He played on two teams with all sorts of limitations so he fit right in and they were still successful overall.
 
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Robert has worked his tail off to get to where he is. He went from an offensive liability to actually having a lot of offensive skill.

I think a lot of credit should also go to Kyle Green. He is really good at developing bigs. Hopefully we can see some big jumps in improvement from Omaha (if he stays another year) and JT Rock.
 
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This weekend you were commenting on how Ward should be playing 30 minutes a game. I just don't think that is realistic.

Number one, I don't think Ward could stay out of foul trouble enough to play 30 minutes.
And number two, would he be as effective on both ends of the floor playing 8 to 10 more minutes.

Ward and BRE splitting time at the 5 is the perfect senario. I was thinking maybe Ward should start again, but if he went back to the starting lineup I could see him getting two quick fouls in the first 5 to 10 minutes of some games. Both guys playing 20ish minutes is perfect. And Watson has been great off the bench in spot minutes with his rebounding and defense.
 
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ZRF said:
I'd attribute most of that to not forcing shots (the lower the shoulder forced line drive BS) and dunking the ball. Too bad Melvin Ejim couldn't figure out a dunk was a higher percentage shot than an unecessary layup, especially when said layups were routinely blown.

In all serious he's dunking the ball a lot more this year. I bet that's responsible for a 1/3 of the jump. He's also shooting the ball LESS per minute played (.24 vs .26). While that might not seem like a lot, that's 7 percent less. I can almost guarantee that 7 percent were all terrible shots/decisions.

Playing smarter (not forcing) and more effective (dunking vs missing layups) is a huge reason for his offensive efficiency improvements.
Click to expand...
You really like to troll don't you? Start with a mea culpa and then diss ME?
 
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JohnnyFive said:
I thought Big Rob was just a big body that offered a little bit of rebounding and not a whole lot else when he got here.

But holy s*** did that guy work his tail off to get better in all areas. And I mean all areas. He is now one of my favorite glue guys in recent memory.
Click to expand...

Even TJ has said he isnt very talented but he works his ass off.
 
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