Yes I watch the game.
I believe you do too but without the ability to see it in a bigger picture/ non-linear way.
*** Official Kansas State vs #23 IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***
- Thread starter CycloneRulzzz
- Start date
Yes I watch the game.
I believe you do too but without the ability to see it in a bigger picture/ non-linear way.
Thanks, makes sense. Isn't there a "rebound percentage" stat that might depict this?
Yes, Gilbert is the beginning of the return to normalcy class. CuJo is the final Covid class.
(Exceptions of course)
Exactly. And to the main point of rebounding... Tre King is the only big that's had double digit rebounds. Meanwhile, Gilbert and Lipsey have each had numerous.
By definition it was a foul (although initially I thought it was a bad call), the replay showed the contact with the feet. If a defensive player is still moving (as in this case) and his foot/leg extend into the path of the offensive player causing contact and a fall, it is a foul. Many refs may have let it go and called it incidental but this official blows the whistle and motions to his leg as the call. It’s correct. Tre’s 4th foul was also correct by the rule book when he rode the guy out (although it is often not called either) but they missed the one where KSU did the same to Robert Jones where BRE was called for a foul for essentially getting driven right into the offensive player under the basket earlier in the 2nd half.
On the low rebounds, I do think there's a real strategy in letting the posts box out to keep their guys off the boards and let the guards fly in to actually grab the ball. I feel pretty confident in saying that Gilbert wouldn't have had 13 rebounds without the work by the big men against KSU's. I'll add that ISU held KSU well under their season offensive rebounding percentage (22% last night, 36% on the season). There was a stretch where it didn't feel like that during the game, but over the entire game, the team rebounding was solid.
On King, maybe it's a hot take, but I think there are a lot of times that Watson adds more value being on the court than King. The exception to that is in games where King has a mismatch and he can take advantage down low offensively, plus games when the opponent has a 4 that is able to post up and King's strength is more useful. But overall, I think Watson provides more value against most teams defensively, is similar to King on the boards, and both of them just kind of lurk on offense a lot of the time. If either could consistently make threes, that would swing the needle way toward them.
I'm going to disagree on this.
I don't think our guards "rebound well" as a byproduct of what the bigs are doing. It's not like the bigs are sealing off their (our guard) counterparts so they can more easily swoop in. Our bigs are usually going up against and blocking out their own counterparts. Sadly, as a group, they often do a very poor job of bodying up, timing jumps, and grabbing loose balls.
I do think TJ tells our guards to get after it and fortunately we have 2 really good rebounding guards (Tamin and Gilbert) who would likely excel on other teams. Tamin is more steady and consistent while Gilbert is spurty. As stated in my previous post Gilbert's rebounding abilities usually go hand-in-hand with his scoring, with both being a by-product of his aggression. When he's not scoring he's also not rebounding. When he's scoring he's usually rebounding. Pretty much all of his low rebounding outputs have coincided with his lowest point outputs, and it's mostly the same for his high rebounding outputs. When Gilbert is bad he simply just doesn't show up...anywhere whereas Tamin can have an "off night" in one area and be effective in several others.
The presser was fine. It’s just that Tang’s in game unprofessional behavior made you wonder how he could have such a magical five minute transformation.
TJ was smart enough not to acknowledge Tang’s weird conspiracy theory (if one was really alleged) and just move on.
Here's my take on our bigs.
Ward, limit his 1st half minutes if need to ensure he has no more then one foul at the half.
Jones, never throw him the ball when he's on the move. It ends badly.
Ward, stop with the 3s, it's not your thing.
Biliew, keep working him in slowly. It's going to click eventually.
Watson, not really a big but he plays big. He does the dirty work without needing to get his shots. That's a great thing to be.
Milan, keep him in the 3 guard rotation we're/he's better with two of the other guys manning the 4/5 minutes.
Ward, limit his 1st half minutes if need to ensure he has no more then one foul at the half.
Jones, never throw him the ball when he's on the move. It ends badly.
Ward, stop with the 3s, it's not your thing.
Biliew, keep working him in slowly. It's going to click eventually.
Watson, not really a big but he plays big. He does the dirty work without needing to get his shots. That's a great thing to be.
Milan, keep him in the 3 guard rotation we're/he's better with two of the other guys manning the 4/5 minutes.
I noted in my other post, but I'll just add it standalone here:
This season KSU is the #25 offensive rebounding team at 36%. Last night, Iowa State held them well under that average at a 22% offensive rebounding rate--a rate that would be one of the 20 worst in the country if averaged over the entire season.
So we're not a terrific rebounding team, ranked 189th in the nation. But we're ranked 29th in holding our opponents to low rebounding numbers. I think our TO% is top in the country but total TOs per game we're at 360/363.
I couldn't find the rebound percentage but just showing those stats, you can see that our high TO rate just limits the amounts of rebounds we're able to gather.
Watson is typically way more valuable (this year). In fact, on a per minute basis, he's (statistically) the most valuable player on the team (edit: I was thinking Ward but correctly typed Watson...this obviously is not correct as Ward is statistically our best play in this particular regard).
King's problem on the boards, if you hone in on him consistently, is he will often mistime his jumps. It's almost comical sometimes as he will jump both early and late, only to give up a rebound he probably should have had. I'm sure there are other players like that around college basketball, but King is the only player where it's stood out so vividly and consistently to where I know he's doing it (by name).
Part of Ward's issue is he is often out of position to rebound and that's not entirely his fault. He's an excellent perimeter defender for his size and will often stay on guards on a switch. Also, and this is sometimes positive and sometimes negative, Ward often leaves his feet on shots. Whether he's flashing to the perimeter, trying to block a shot down low, etc it often means he's compromised positionally or can't properly gather himself to go for the board.
Then there's Jones. Between his lack of hops and bad hands, he misses out on some easy boards. There was that one play last night where it looked like he tried to corral the rebound by dribbling the ball and it promptly went out of bounds. Sometimes he just needs to grab the ******* ball. LOL.
Last edited:
I think the main difference between King and Watson is offensive potential. King isn't going to give you 15 points every night, but he can on any given night, and Watson definitely isn't as he just isn't that aggressive at this point.
Our bigs make sure that their man does not get the ball. They care more about that than actually going for the ball. Now, they obviously grab it if it's available but it's a scheme that we deploy. Also, we actually do a very good job of grabbing loose balls. It's one of the best things we do as a team lol.
It's the steals we get, takes shots away from the opponents total meaning we don't get loads of defensive rebounds.
That's comparing apples to oranges though. It's not like the KSU bigs got the rebounds - they went to Gilbert instead.
McNair and Colbert for KSU - I think they are the '5's - played 40 minutes and got 3 boards, zero offensive.
Yes, the analytics look at Offensive Rebound Percentage, which is simply what percentage of a teams missed shots are rebounded by the offense.
KSU last night was 20%, which is very low. We give up ~26% on the season, which is Top 20 nationally.
We got 39% of our misses last night, which is a bit better than our season average of ~33%, which is okay but not great.
For reference, TCU had a season high 53% against us last game.
It did seem like both teams got a ton of offensive rebounds in the first 10 minutes of the game or so - I surprised when the box showed KSU only had 6. We really cleaned that up in the second half.
Unfortunately some stats aren't valid this time of the year, especially when a team has such a vast differential in opponent quality between non-con and conference schedules. As bad as our non-con was there's was even worse.
That rebounding percentage or rate (from Torvik) is 29.7 against conference opponents and that's likely a much better barometer of their actual ability (than the entire season that was largely against scrubs). They also shot a higher percentage of their shots from 3, 50% compared to 42% on the year (couldn't find conf stats on that), meaning they were compromising their ability to get offensive rebounds from their shot selection. Part of which could have been from our defense and/or part from just poor shot selection or circumstance.
In conference play KSU is sitting midpack on conference rebounding rate. Based on what I saw last night I think that's likely a better barometer of their abilities on that front, rather than the "#25 rating" that was compiled against dog **** teams.