Williams & Blum Pod: Cy-Hawk, Omaha & offensive coordinators

[rosshm16]

"Most Famous" WBB player, "Most Impactful", it's kind of like the Heisman, what does it mean exactly to be "Most Oustanding"? It's not a well-defined thing.

On Omaha, one of my main worries is I struggle to think of a good NBA comp. He was described as this really athletic / high-energy / high-motor defensive presence and just hasn't shown much of that yet.

Much easier with our other good players e.g. Tamin Lipsey = Jameer Nelson, Keshon Gilbert = Dwyane Wade, Milan = Dirk etc.

 

[MJ271]

I was trying to come up with an Omaha comp as well for the NBA, not sure I can find one yet

Primarily in terms of offensive/defensive skill set balance, my go-to comps have been a longer version of Isaac Okoro, or Jordan Walsh from this past year's draft.

 

[Hubbs4cy]

I am 100% with @brentblum on Clark. She certainly is the most impactful women’s player today, but relative to their time period she isn’t close to Candace Parker, Maya Moore, Britney Griner, or Sabrina Ionescu. I’d argue Parker is the most impactful on that list by a mile, especially with her high school hype

I agree, I think "we" (Iowa based sports fans) are not the proper gauge in this conversation anyways as we have a love or hate of Clark since it is a daily news cycle in Iowa. If you stop people on the street in NYC or LA I almost guarantee they will know the names on your list 10 times over before they know Clark, hell I'll even throw Plum in there for arguments sake so it's not just a Hawk hate argument. Again that is nothing against her scoring ability or talent, she just isn't that impactful to the women's game.

 

[JimDogRock]

I agree, I think "we" (Iowa based sports fans) are not the proper gauge in this conversation anyways as we have a love or hate of Clark since it is a daily news cycle in Iowa. If you stop people on the street in NYC or LA I almost guarantee they will know the names on your list 10 times over before they know Clark, hell I'll even throw Plum in there for arguments sake so it's not just a Hawk hate argument. Again that is nothing against her scoring ability or talent, she just isn't that impactful to the women's game.

Yes, I think the localness of the Clark bubble heavily skews the narrative.
I've never heard so many people talk about their transcendental experience of watching Clark play in person. Yet these are the kind of people that if you ask them to name 10 other basketball players they would say Michael Jordan twice.

 

[madguy30]

Yes, I think the localness of the Clark bubble heavily skews the narrative.
I've never heard so many people talk about their transcendental experience of watching Clark play in person. Yet these are the kind of people that if you ask them to name 10 other basketball players they would say Michael Jordan twice.

It's Haydenism at its peak. Iowa fans expect everyone to be along for the ride for anything Hawkeye.

 

[MJ271]

I agree, I think "we" (Iowa based sports fans) are not the proper gauge in this conversation anyways as we have a love or hate of Clark since it is a daily news cycle in Iowa. If you stop people on the street in NYC or LA I almost guarantee they will know the names on your list 10 times over before they know Clark, hell I'll even throw Plum in there for arguments sake so it's not just a Hawk hate argument. Again that is nothing against her scoring ability or talent, she just isn't that impactful to the women's game.

I'd go the other way in that there's so much discussion here trying to minimize Clark's popularity that many people don't realize how significant Iowa's tourney run last year was because it's easy to say it's distorted in Iowa media.

Google Trends is a pretty good way to find a base level of popularity or interest in a person/topic. Of the group brought up in this thread, Griner is the only one with clearly greater search popularity, but the recent peaks that make it up are all due to her being detained in Russia. Besides for Griner, Parker (though not shown here) is the only one who compares, though her peak search interest isn't as high as Clark's tournament interest.


Here's what it looks like when you take out Griner and replace her with Maya Moore, plus expanding the years. Despite the fact that Clark has only been around for a small part of that time, she is still very present on the map outside of Iowa.


Just to show how the search traffic compares, here's Clark vs. Alabama football:

 

[theshadow]

@brentblum

If Ryan doesn't play this season, she'll still have 2 years left.

Diew and Natabou both have a Covid year available in '24-25.

 

[madguy30]

I'd go the other way in that there's so much discussion here trying to minimize Clark's popularity that many people don't realize how significant Iowa's tourney run last year was because it's easy to say it's distorted in Iowa media.

Google Trends is a pretty good way to find a base level of popularity or interest in a person/topic. Of the group brought up in this thread, Griner is the only one with clearly greater search popularity, but the recent peaks that make it up are all due to her being detained in Russia. Besides for Griner, Parker (though not shown here) is the only one who compares, though her peak search interest isn't as high as Clark's tournament interest.
View attachment 120693

Here's what it looks like when you take out Griner and replace her with Maya Moore, plus expanding the years. Despite the fact that Clark has only been around for a small part of that time, she is still very present on the map outside of Iowa.
View attachment 120694

Just to show how the search traffic compares, here's Clark vs. Alabama football:
View attachment 120690

Imo the likes of Rebecca Lobo, Lisa Leslie, and Sheryl Swoopes had a more profound and long lasting impact on the women's game for popularity and stability than what Clark will have.

 

[MJ271]

Imo the likes of Rebecca Lobo, Lisa Leslie, and Sheryl Swoopes had a more profound and long lasting impact on the women's game for popularity and stability than what Clark will have.

I think that will probably end up being true, but considering that those players helped bring the WNBA into existence while Clark hasn't even left college yet, I don't think that's a great measure for Clark's current popularity or impact.

I can't really think of a great modern comparison, but I'll go with saying that your statement is a bit like saying that Babe Ruth had a more profound and long-lasting impact than Shohei Ohtani will have. It's probably true, simply because the Babe Ruth bar is so high, but we can't be sure in any way because we can't know Ohtani's long-term effects or how the rest of his career plays out. All we know is that Ohtani, like Clark, has generated popularity and interest that hasn't been seen by any other recent players.

 

[TitanClone]

Imo the likes of Rebecca Lobo, Lisa Leslie, and Sheryl Swoopes had a more profound and long lasting impact on the women's game for popularity and stability than what Clark will have.

Cheryl Miller is the top of the list IMO.

 

[madguy30]

I think that will probably end up being true, but considering that those players helped bring the WNBA into existence while Clark hasn't even left college yet, I don't think that's a great measure for Clark's current popularity or impact.

I can't really think of a great modern comparison, but I'll go with saying that your statement is a bit like saying that Babe Ruth had a more profound and long-lasting impact than Shohei Ohtani will have. It's probably true, simply because the Babe Ruth bar is so high, but we can't be sure in any way because we can't know Ohtani's long-term effects or how the rest of his career plays out. All we know is that Ohtani, like Clark, has generated popularity and interest that hasn't been seen by any other recent players.

Basically yeah.

She is popular; she is not transcendent.

Which makes Hok media's aligning her with Michael Jordan to be really stupid.

 

[MJ271]

Basically yeah.

She is popular; she is not transcendent.

Which makes Hok media's aligning her with Michael Jordan to be really stupid.

I guess I just don't know what we're talking about, then. Because if the bar is that she has to be guaranteed to be one of the several most impactful players in her sport ever, it's a bar that is impossible for any college athlete to meet.

Does she have a Michael Jordan impact on women's basketball as a whole yet? No, of course not, but I don't think it's out of the question, and if there is any current women's basketball player with a chance at that sort of impact, it's probably her.

 

[CydeofFries]

Basically yeah.

She is popular; she is not transcendent.

Which makes Hok media's aligning her with Michael Jordan to be really stupid.

I think the best comp is Trae Young. When he was in college it interrupted every broadcast to talk about him at OU, and he was doing essentially the same things she is.

Also you can't talk about how she could contribute in a men's game without mentioning adjusting to a different ball size. That alone would damage her 3 pt %.

 

[isufbcurt]

I still think we are trying to force him to play a position that doesn't suite him,

We are trying to play him on the block posting up, he's more of a slasher.

 

[rosshm16]

I'm not staunchly in the "She wouldn't score a single point" camp but arguing she would average 10 a game in the men's Big 10 is fantasy.

 

[madguy30]

I still think we are trying to force him to play a position that doesn't suite him,

We are trying to play him on the block posting up, he's more of a slasher.

It looked like last game they were just trying to get him the ball and let him make a play to feel things out.

 

[CloniesForLife]

I still think we are trying to force him to play a position that doesn't suite him,

We are trying to play him on the block posting up, he's more of a slasher.

Yeah I totally agree. He isn't a post or a post up guy. He's a wing. Slashing, high post, maybe even pick and pop. Not sure what his handles are like but if he can get matched up on a forward could be a potential mismatch there.

 

[rosshm16]

I'd like to see us try more lobs to Omaha.

 

[madguy30]

I guess I just don't know what we're talking about, then. Because if the bar is that she has to be guaranteed to be one of the several most impactful players in her sport ever, it's a bar that is impossible for any college athlete to meet.

Does she have a Michael Jordan impact on women's basketball as a whole yet? No, of course not, but I don't think it's out of the question, and if there is any current women's basketball player with a chance at that sort of impact, it's probably her.

MJ was an athletic freak at both ends and was just getting started and dominated the best players in the world for over a decade.

I think it's pretty far out of the qestion to wonder if Clark will do the same.

 

[MJ271]

MJ was an athletic freak at both ends and was just getting started and dominated the best players in the world for over a decade.

I think it's pretty far out of the qestion to wonder if Clark will do the same.

I just said MJ because that was the person who you said and I was thinking only about impact. If we're talking a stylistic sort of similar impact, the more likely Clark comparison is Steph Curry, who still has one of the biggest impacts of any NBA player ever. Not saying she'll get there. But it also wasn't until Curry's 4th or 5th year in the league that there was any notion that he would have the kind of impact he has had.