SpaceX Starship

I saw a note in a news story about the recent India lander that the Starship trip around the moon is still scheduled for 2024, and I was like "are we sure about that?" Seems real optimistic, but that would be SOP for SpaceX.
 
With the next starship launch potentially in the next week or two, SpaceX released a write up of some of the changes made to the ship and launch pad.

The two biggest ones in my opinion:
The booster bidet, a water deluge system to cool the pad and try to keep it in one place.
Hot staging, the ship will fire it's engines prior to detaching from the booster. No more flip maneuver.

 
Kind of a disturbing segment to watch.
Does anyone know in aero if this is common or a SpaceX problem? Or anyone in major construction?
Let's try and keep the cave-ish takes out of this so people can see it.

 
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With the next starship launch potentially in the next week or two, SpaceX released a write up of some of the changes made to the ship and launch pad.

The two biggest ones in my opinion:
The booster bidet, a water deluge system to cool the pad and try to keep it in one place.
Hot staging, the ship will fire it's engines prior to detaching from the booster. No more flip maneuver.

Still trusting your sources?
 
Kind of a disturbing segment to watch.
Does anyone know in aero if this is common or a SpaceX problem? Or anyone in major construction?
Let's try and keep the cave-ish takes out of this so people can see it.


According to this it’s 3 times the rate of space industry injuries. Same source as yours in Reuters.
 
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Kind of a disturbing segment to watch.
Does anyone know in aero if this is common or a SpaceX problem? Or anyone in major construction?
Let's try and keep the cave-ish takes out of this so people can see it.



It's kind of hard to know how to judge without an actual manhour total (which SpaceX sees to be hiding) and the total number of injuries per period. That said, it seems extremely excessive based on the article (which parts are exaggerated and which parts are ). It doesn't surprise me given everything you here about SpaceX and Elon. I don't agree with parts of OSHA, but most of those rules are written in blood.

Ultimately the company is responsible for their employees safety. Granted, you can't fix stupid, and stopping people from being stupid is a lot harder than it sounds. As an employer I'm responsible for my guys safety overall (or at least proving that I've given them the tools and training to be safe). There is a big difference between an unsafe company / work culture and an unsafe employee.

As a PM in heavy civil construction we look for a recordable injury rate of 1.0 or less. Our goal as a company is less than 0.5. The injury rate is (number of injuries * 200,000)/number of mhrs worked (or how many injuries per 100 people working 2000 hrs a year). Now, one thing that can screw with a recordable incident rate is prescriptions. Even an OTC drug (like ibuprofen) when given at prescription strength is a recordable and gets logged the same as a guy getting half a dozen stitches and a bunch of antibiotics.
 
It's kind of hard to know how to judge without an actual manhour total (which SpaceX sees to be hiding) and the total number of injuries per period. That said, it seems extremely excessive based on the article (which parts are exaggerated and which parts are ). It doesn't surprise me given everything you here about SpaceX and Elon. I don't agree with parts of OSHA, but most of those rules are written in blood.

Ultimately the company is responsible for their employees safety. Granted, you can't fix stupid, and stopping people from being stupid is a lot harder than it sounds. As an employer I'm responsible for my guys safety overall (or at least proving that I've given them the tools and training to be safe). There is a big difference between an unsafe company / work culture and an unsafe employee.

As a PM in heavy civil construction we look for a recordable injury rate of 1.0 or less. Our goal as a company is less than 0.5. The injury rate is (number of injuries * 200,000)/number of mhrs worked (or how many injuries per 100 people working 2000 hrs a year). Now, one thing that can screw with a recordable incident rate is prescriptions. Even an OTC drug (like ibuprofen) when given at prescription strength is a recordable and gets logged the same as a guy getting half a dozen stitches and a bunch of antibiotics.
Say a company like SpaceX continues to have injuries like this, do you think OSHA just plants someone there to watch construction practices for a while?
 
Say a company like SpaceX continues to have injuries like this, do you think OSHA just plants someone there to watch construction practices for a while?

Maybe? I've never had to deal with that issue. Normally all OSHA can do is slap some fines on them. Individual states may have more power, but let's be honest, Texas just enacted a law that essentially banned mandatory water breaks. So, I don't think they give two ***** about workers. Throw in a non-union environment (not that the unions guarantee safety culture IMO) and it's hard for the workers to get anything done.
 
Maybe? I've never had to deal with that issue. Normally all OSHA can do is slap some fines on them. Individual states may have more power, but let's be honest, Texas just enacted a law that essentially banned mandatory water breaks. So, I don't think they give two ***** about workers. Throw in a non-union environment (not that the unions guarantee safety culture IMO) and it's hard for the workers to get anything done.
I'm kind of curious about how many cameras SpaceX would have up as well and if they'd have to share any data.
 
That was an interesting article. The fact is one would expect a greater workplace incident rate in a company that has two tenths the number of employees of Boeing's aerospace division but currently puts 90+% of all global payload into orbit. Collins Aerospace has 80,000 employees compared to Space X's 14000, but Collins has no launch responsibilities. Northrupp and Boeing have been working on the SLS launch vehicle for 13 years and have gotten it off the pad just once so far, and do not have their second test launch scheduled. Space X has to launch weekly.

Space X is a different thing than the rest of the space industry, so direct comparisons aren't exactly useful, IMO.
 
Last edited:
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According to this it’s 3 times the rate of space industry injuries. Same source as yours in Reuters.
Breaking historical barriers isn’t safe. Being overly cautious is why NASA’s best accomplishments are decades ago
 
Breaking historical barriers isn’t safe. Being overly cautious is why NASA’s best accomplishments are decades ago
That’s certainly a take, that welders must work in unsafe conditions for example to… innovate?


Innovation!

In November 2021, two Brownsville technicians were moving square steel tubing weighing 500 pounds, using a crane with a lifting magnet, according to OSHA inspection records. The tubing fell and crushed a worker’s hand because the crane was only designed to hoist 300 pounds, OSHA concluded.


Using the wrong crane saved much time and blah blah blah.
 
That’s certainly a take, that welders must work in unsafe conditions for example to… innovate?


Innovation!

In November 2021, two Brownsville technicians were moving square steel tubing weighing 500 pounds, using a crane with a lifting magnet, according to OSHA inspection records. The tubing fell and crushed a worker’s hand because the crane was only designed to hoist 300 pounds, OSHA concluded.


Using the wrong crane saved much time and blah blah blah.
Can’t innovate if you’re waiting around for the right tools!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: simply1
That’s certainly a take, that welders must work in unsafe conditions for example to… innovate?


Innovation!

In November 2021, two Brownsville technicians were moving square steel tubing weighing 500 pounds, using a crane with a lifting magnet, according to OSHA inspection records. The tubing fell and crushed a worker’s hand because the crane was only designed to hoist 300 pounds, OSHA concluded.


Using the wrong crane saved much time and blah blah blah.
I am addressing the article's contention generally, not that specific incident.
 
Maybe? I've never had to deal with that issue. Normally all OSHA can do is slap some fines on them. Individual states may have more power, but let's be honest, Texas just enacted a law that essentially banned mandatory water breaks. So, I don't think they give two ***** about workers. Throw in a non-union environment (not that the unions guarantee safety culture IMO) and it's hard for the workers to get anything done.

Nothing gets done in Texas?
 

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