***Official 2023 Chicago Cubs Thread***

[ISUCubswin]

The firing has me wondering how much Rossy chose the lineup over the FO. Is it possible Rossy made some of those silly lineup decisions? Is it possible the FO made all those decisions and now believe maybe they DO need the human element which led to Counsell?

Was interesting to hear Hoyer mention “we left many wins on the table,” and I’m curious how much of that he’s blaming Ross

 

[tman24]

My guess is the fo did the starting lineup but all the in-game crap was rossy. Pinch hitting for stupid reasons, leaving pitchers too long etc.

 

[Cyforce]

The firing has me wondering how much Rossy chose the lineup over the FO. Is it possible Rossy made some of those silly lineup decisions? Is it possible the FO made all those decisions and now believe maybe they DO need the human element which led to Counsell?

Was interesting to hear Hoyer mention “we left many wins on the table,” and I’m curious how much of that he’s blaming Ross

I have a hard time believing the FO would be the side wanting unproductive vets in the lineup everyday. Canario needed ABs down the stretch but he was only played begrudgingly.

 

[CYdTracked]

Front office could improve some things by finally cutting bait with guys like Wisdom and not bringing in guys like Mancini and Barnhart going forward that were unproductive and waste of roster spots. Will be really interesting to see if Wisdom, Tauchman, and a few other fringe players get offered arbitration or they do the smart thing and not offer them and open up some more 40 man spots to protect some more minor league guys. Thinking with Heuer's injury he's a cut candidate now too and have decisions to make on Cuas, Merryweather, Keegan Thompson, Palencia, and Leiter too. Still have minor league options on those guys but some you can make a case of moving on and opening another 40 man spot.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Patrick Wisdom is cheap, can play 4 positions and hits the cover off the ball against left handed pitching. He's a great bench piece, where Rossy got in trouble is when he tried to make him an everyday player. He's not that.

 

[Cyforce]

Front office could improve some things by finally cutting bait with guys like Wisdom and not bringing in guys like Mancini and Barnhart going forward that were unproductive and waste of roster spots. Will be really interesting to see if Wisdom, Tauchman, and a few other fringe players get offered arbitration or they do the smart thing and not offer them and open up some more 40 man spots to protect some more minor league guys. Thinking with Heuer's injury he's a cut candidate now too and have decisions to make on Cuas, Merryweather, Keegan Thompson, Palencia, and Leiter too. Still have minor league options on those guys but some you can make a case of moving on and opening another 40 man spot.

Mancini??? Barnhart??? both were considered better signings then Bellinger last winter (funny how you left him.off your list) by this board by a wide margin. Last year the Cubs overachieved largely in part because of a guy they took a flyer on. I would of let this go but you also brought up possibly not tendering Tauchman.

It's true we don't have room on the 40 for reclamation projects this year. Simply too many legitimate prospects that need those spots.

 

[CYdTracked]

Mancini??? Barnhart??? both were considered better signings then Bellinger last winter (funny how you left him.off your list) by this board by a wide margin. Last year the Cubs overachieved largely in part because of a guy they took a flyer on. I would of let this go but you also brought up possibly not tendering Tauchman.

It's true we don't have room on the 40 for reclamation projects this year. Simply too many legitimate prospects that need those spots.

A former MVP still in his late 20's vs 2 guys in their early 30's that are destined to be journeymen the rest of their career that never going to be mistaken as MVP caliber players. The risk/reward ceiling was always higher with Belli. They only gave Belli a 1 year deal where the other got 2 that we'll still be paying them next year not to play for us. I'd consider those poor signings that they couldn't even make it a full season on the roster on a 2 year deal.

I don't see a reason to tender Tauchman if we either sign or trade for an OF and with the glut of OF prospects we have that can fill a 4th OF role. Canario and PCA will likely be given a legit chance to make the opening day roster if they aren't part of a trade and if 1 or neither does it they probably will be called up fairly quick if they are hot at Iowa or there is an injury.

 

[Cyforce]

A former MVP still in his late 20's vs 2 guys in their early 30's that are destined to be journeymen the rest of their career that never going to be mistaken as MVP caliber players. The risk/reward ceiling was always higher with Belli. They only gave Belli a 1 year deal where the other got 2 that we'll still be paying them next year not to play for us. I'd consider those poor signings that they couldn't even make it a full season on the roster on a 2 year deal.

I don't see a reason to tender Tauchman if we either sign or trade for an OF and with the glut of OF prospects we have that can fill a 4th OF role. Canario and PCA will likely be given a legit chance to make the opening day roster if they aren't part of a trade and if 1 or neither does it they probably will be called up fairly quick if they are hot at Iowa or there is an injury.

There was a lot of ******** about Bellinger on this board when he was signed. PCA will get extended time in Iowa next year. If / when he's ready then you can DFA Tauchman but it would be foolish to not have him on the opening day roster. PCA has a lot to work out before he's ready for full-time duty in the majors.

Who they keep is going to be largely determined by who they sign.

 

[CYdTracked]

There was a lot of ******** about Bellinger on this board when he was signed. PCA will get extended time in Iowa next year. If / when he's ready then you can DFA Tauchman but it would be foolish to not have him on the opening day roster. PCA has a lot to work out before he's ready for full-time duty in the majors.

Who they keep is going to be largely determined by who they sign.

I was fine with the Bellinger signing when it happened. If he was a bust it was only 1 wasted year on a team that had no expectations to make the playoffs coming into the season.

Agree what they do with Tauchman will probably be tied to what they do in the offseason but would not be surprised if they non tender him as he's not a must have guy to retain. He's a 32 year old journeyman that got hot for a stretch last year then really cooled off in August and September. I like his glove, it will be interesting to see what they do with him as if it weren't for his hot hitting when they called him up he was likely going to be DFA when they needed to make another roster move since he was out of options.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Tauchman has, at worst, earned a spot as the 5th OF. You would be crazy to let him go, especially because he’s essentially free. He’s cheap, is a team player, and his role would not be taking PT away from a prospect if he’s strictly a bench piece.

I would be ok with cutting bait with Wisdom, I thought he’d be a decent lefty platoon guy but last years splits show he is just not a good player on a good team. Let him go play for the A’s/Royals and make money being the 4 hitter for a poverty franchise

 

[Cyforce]

Alright armchair GMs, you got 90 mil to spend. How you doing it?

Before you tell what you don't like post how you'd spend.

1. Ohtani 10 yrs/ 450 mil
Only caveat because he can pitch in 24 defer 10 mil to the end of the term. 35 mill in 24

2. Bellinger 7 yrs/ 175 mil. 25 mil in 24

3. Wade Miley 2yrs/ 30 mil. 15 mil in 24 not glamorous but an ultra ground ball guy that eats innings.

Leaves 15 mil for the bullpen.

Offer a mid level prospect with Smyly. This savings is your contingency money at the deadline.

Rotation isn't ideal in 24 but you have 4 vets and the young guns. But look at the offense. Plus haven't dealt any prospect capital if we need more pitching at the deadline.

1.Hoerner
2.Ohtani
3. Bellinger
4. Suzuki
5. Happ
6. Swanson
7. Morel 1B
8. Gomes Amaya
9. Madrigal Masterbouni ( Shaw ASAP )

 

[CYdTracked]

Alright armchair GMs, you got 90 mil to spend. How you doing it?

Before you tell what you don't like post how you'd spend.

1. Ohtani 10 yrs/ 450 mil
Only caveat because he can pitch in 24 defer 10 mil to the end of the term. 35 mill in 24

2. Bellinger 7 yrs/ 175 mil. 25 mil in 24

3. Wade Miley 2yrs/ 30 mil. 15 mil in 24 not glamorous but an ultra ground ball guy that eats innings.

Leaves 15 mil for the bullpen.

Offer a mid level prospect with Smyly. This savings is your contingency money at the deadline.

Rotation isn't ideal in 24 but you have 4 vets and the young guns. But look at the offense. Plus haven't dealt any prospect capital if we need more pitching at the deadline.

1.Hoerner
2.Ohtani
3. Bellinger
4. Suzuki
5. Happ
6. Swanson
7. Morel 1B
8. Gomes Amaya
9. Madrigal Masterbouni ( Shaw ASAP )

1. I'd be OK with that for Ohtani. Before his elbow injury there were projections that he could get 50-60 mil a year. He's a generational talent that will bring a lot of outside revenue and attention regardless if he ever pitches again. I think he is destined to sign with Seattle but I hope the Cubs are in the running for him. Best case scenario he's their Ace in 2025 and beyond but at worst he's going to be the big bat they desperately need in the heart of the order.

2. He's a Boras client so I bet he signs for more than this. $200 mil or more probably and if this year was not a fluke he's probably worth it with that combination of bat and gold glove defense at 2 positions. I hope he is back but odds are another team like the Yankees is willing to overpay for him and Boras will wait it out to get that while the Cubs go out and get guys they can that eat up the budget.

3. A bit snake bit because of his injury riddled 2022 season with the Cubs but if he can stay healthy and be a guy around a 3.00 ERA I'd take that contract. But I still would want to sign or trade for an Ace for the top of the rotation as Miley going into age 37 season will be nothing more than a very solid # 3 or 4 rotation guy when he's healthy and at his best.

I'm expecting a wild offseason for the Cubs after how they were able to nab Counsell under the radar. Makes me think Hoyer and the Ricketts have a game plan in mind and are going to make some calculated moves we have not even thought up of yet, I think the X factor is if they land a couple big bats and a top of the rotation pitcher they are going to spend some money on the bullpen as that was a really bad area this year trying to hold onto close games. 15 mil for bullpen arms may be on the low side. If Alzolay is healthy hes the low cost closer but to sign some elite setup guys for the 7th and 8th innings 15 mil might be a challenge

 

[1UNI2ISU]

1. Ohtani- 12/$475M ($40M AAV)

2. Yamamoto- 7/$175M ($25m AAV)- Posting fee does not count against the tax

3. Montgomery- 6/$115M ($19M AAV)

4. $6M on bullpen pieces

5. Start converting Caisse to 1B in Des Moines

Happ LF
Ohtani DH
Suzuki RF
Morel 1B
Hoerner 2B
Swanson SS
Gomes/Amaya C
Tauchman CF (PCA by June)
Madrigal 3B

Rotation 2024-
Steele
Yamamoto
Montgomery
Hendricks
Taillon

Rotation 2025-
Ohtani
Steele
Yamamoto
Montgomery
Horton

 

[ISUCubswin]

I think bottom line you HAVE to get 2 of 3 of a CF, 1B, or 3B, 2 SPs, and at least 1 RP.

My plan will change when the wind blows but as of now:

1) Sign Ohtani for $35 AAV but easy-to-achieve health based incentives up to $50 MM.

2) Sign Shota Imanaga for $17 MM

3) Sign Yuki Matsui for $7 MM

Let Japan pay for your CBT until the MLB puts blackout restrictions there because they’re in the Cubs market

4) Sign Bellinger for $25 MM

5) Trade Alonso for PCA if Mets cover Alonso’s contract

Hold onto prospects and trade chips to see needs at trade deadline

 

[Cyforce]

I think bottom line you HAVE to get 2 of 3 of a CF, 1B, or 3B, 2 SPs, and at least 1 RP.

My plan will change when the wind blows but as of now:

1) Sign Ohtani for $35 AAV but easy-to-achieve health based incentives up to $50 MM.

2) Sign Shota Imanaga for $17 MM

3) Sign Yuki Matsui for $7 MM

Let Japan pay for your CBT until the MLB puts blackout restrictions there because they’re in the Cubs market

4) Sign Bellinger for $25 MM

5) Trade Alonso for PCA if Mets cover Alonso’s contract

Hold onto prospects and trade chips to see needs at trade deadline

You went way over 90 mill

 

[ISUCubswin]

You went way over 90 mill

My math says $85 but up to $100 if Ohtani meets incentives, this assumes the Mets take on Alonso’s salary as they did other players during the 2023 deadline.

As I think about it, I wonder if the Cubs will be trying to make deals this offseason in which they offer better prospects and in turn have the other team cover the contract.

 

[ClonesTwenty1]

1. Ohtani- 12/$475M ($40M AAV)

2. Yamamoto- 7/$175M ($25m AAV)- Posting fee does not count against the tax

3. Montgomery- 6/$115M ($19M AAV)

4. $6M on bullpen pieces

5. Start converting Caisse to 1B in Des Moines

Happ LF
Ohtani DH
Suzuki RF
Morel 1B
Hoerner 2B
Swanson SS
Gomes/Amaya C
Tauchman CF (PCA by June)
Madrigal 3B

Rotation 2024-
Steele
Yamamoto
Montgomery
Hendricks
Taillon

Rotation 2025-
Ohtani
Steele
Yamamoto
Montgomery
Horton

This would be one hell of a team.

 

[Cyforce]

My math says $85 but up to $100 if Ohtani meets incentives, this assumes the Mets take on Alonso’s salary as they did other players during the 2023 deadline.

As I think about it, I wonder if the Cubs will be trying to make deals this offseason in which they offer better prospects and in turn have the other team cover the contract.

Why would the Mets do this in his last year of team control?

 

[ISUCubswin]

Why would the Mets do this in his last year of team control?

The Mets are paying for Verlander and Scherzers contracts so they could, in return, receive better prospects in those trades. The concept would be the same. We give you a top prospect, you pay the guys contract we’re receiving.

No one in the right mind would trade PCA AND pay Alonso for one year.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Fully prepared for the dislikes but I don't think it's just a coincidence Hoyer's contract was not aligned with Counsell's. I think Hoyer has 2024 to prove himself or he'll be canned, and I could see the Rickett's saying he can't make a ton of long term financial commitments in the case that he is fired, which is why we've seen a lot of trade speculation pop up.

In the case that Hoyer is in a "playoffs or you're fired" situation and he can only commit to so much money, I wouldn't be shocked if we see something like:

Signing Justin Turner (1 year, $12 MM)
Signing Kyle Gibson (1 year, $12 MM)
Trading for Soto (1 year, $33 MM)
Trading for Alonso (1 Year, $22 MM)
Trading for Bieber or Glasnow (1 Year, $12-15 MM)

And then that team either makes the playoffs and Hoyer gets $100 MM again to play with the next offseason, or they don't, he's fired, and the new guy gets $100 MM to play with his first year. The problem within that scenario, though, is you'd be depleting your farm for the new guy.