ISU Gambling Megathread

[Pat]

But do they possess information that might not be known to the general betting public?

Let's say Tamin Lipsey goes to the ISU doctors and sees Becht, Noel and Tampa wearing boots or using crutches. The injuries happened in practice and aren't widely known.

Obviously, athletes don't just know athletes on their team. They have friends in their sport at other schools- HS or AAU teammates, national teams, competitor friendships. Guys could innocently or intentionally share information.

IMO the integrity of the game and integrity of sports gambling is primary. Sure there are still loopholes that rules could never account for. But for student athletes who are getting full cost of education and NIL income- I don't think it's unreasonable for them to not bet on their sport or other sports at their school.

I don’t like the conflation of protecting the integrity of the game and the “Integrity” of sports betting. Insider information is not the concern of the government or the NCAA, it is the concern of casinos and bookies. They have controls in place to move lines and, if it’s egregious, limit or ban accounts. They don’t need even more protection.

 

[ozzie8]

How are the gambling apps not liable for directly emailing student athletes offering free $$ to download their apps?

 

[Clonefan32]

Why? They have no influence over other schools teams or even other teams at their school.

There's no harm in players from ISU who missed a bowl game last year betting on bowl games that other teams are playing. There's no harm in football players betting on NCAA tournament games.

I'm kind of conflicted on gambling on other teams at your school. In theory, you may have access to information the general public wouldn't have, or you could have more opportunity to work together to influence the outcome of a game if you were so inclined. But I guess the same could be said for about anyone at the school who is friends with an athlete, etc.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

How are the gambling apps not liable for directly emailing student athletes offering free $$ to download their apps?

Do you click on every link and take every offer than rolls into your spam folder?

 

[Clark]

I don't care if kids gamble, but to me the line that can't be crossed is betting on your own team. That's the big scenario that puts the integrity of the sport in jeopardy. Somebody playing football can't impact the basketball outcome to their benefit, but they sure as hell can their own game.

Anything else, I don't really give a ****.

I mostly agree with this. I can somewhat understand not wanting them to bet on games for their own ncaa sport and own school. I just think the first time punishments for those should be a lot less. It sounds like the new policy will be better on that front. It just never made much sense that the punishment for that was so much more severe than the punishment for OWI.

This really sucks for the two or three football players who are going to lose at least half a season before this is all finalized.

 

[Clark]

Do you click on every link and take every offer than rolls into your spam folder?

Not everyone is related to Nigerian royalty like I am.

 

[isufbcurt]

Laws are irrelevant. Sport organizations have rules for what they considered legitimate betting. In the last 6 months the NFL suspended players. No different, the NCAA does and should have restrictions.

I expect in the next year college teams will have to release injury reports similar to NFL to promote transparency.

What athletes know and what they can do is different than non-athletes. There was a big difference between what Isaiah Lee did and players like Hanika or Remsburg. But the temptation isn't that big of a leap.

Why open college sport to the appearance of integrity issues. There are enough other sports for athletes to bet on.

And yet there are no rules associated with insider betting.

If I have a friend at USC who tells me on Friday night Caleb Williams got injured is not playing this week against Arizona and that this information is not being released by the coaching staff there's no rule or law preventing me from placing a large bet on Arizona to win.

I'll use Chris Williams as an example (Chris I am not in any way saying you do this). Chris is friends with the coaches, especially Otz. Chris also promotes certain betting apps. There is nothing preventing Chris from taking information the various coaches give him and cashing in.

Almost anyone can get "insider" information to the various college sports teams so spare me the integrity crap.

 

[1100011CS]

So? There's no law about having inside information when betting. This isn't the stock market where insider trading is illegal.

Many non-athlete college students are friends with athletes and have access to the same information and can bet.

I could go watch practice see that so and so is hurt and place a bet on that information.

Well ****, you just completely changed my opinion. Didn't think about it that way.

 

[wintersmd]

Didn't they only target athletic facilities?

I would then ask why you are JUST targeting athletic facilities. From my understanding it was an investigation of underage gambling and NOT athletes gambling.
If you are going to target underage gambling at a college or university you do not narrow your scope to just athletes. It is not the job if the DCI to investigate for NCAA compliance. And if the DCI insists that they were just targeting underage gambling, why were names released of individuals that were of legal age that were gambling (Jirel Brock)?
There are way to many questions that have no answered for yet. The state could be in the pooper for this.

 

[Didley]

Hypothetically if betting on your own team were legalized fully, there would definitely need to be some major restrictions put on it.
For example. 1. Betting against your own team not allowed and 2. Moneyline only. No props or spreads

 

[wintersmd]

So? There's no law about having inside information when betting. This isn't the stock market where insider trading is illegal.

Many non-athlete college students are friends with athletes and have access to the same information and can bet.

I could go watch practice see that so and so is hurt and place a bet on that information.

Or you can be Joe Flunky and see them at a Casey's wearing a boot and in crutches and make the assumption.
This is why there is no law on insider information. It would be so hard to prove.

 

[CydeofFries]

Or you can be Joe Flunky and see them at a Casey's wearing a boot and in crutches and make the assumption.
This is why there is no law on insider information. It would be so hard to prove.

Yeah but seeing them at a Casey's is somewhere public. There's a difference between seeing someone in public and having access to areas that only student athletes/AD people have access to due to participation/involvement in athletics.

 

[qwerty]

I would then ask why you are JUST targeting athletic facilities. From my understanding it was an investigation of underage gambling and NOT athletes gambling.
If you are going to target underage gambling at a college or university you do not narrow your scope to just athletes. It is not the job if the DCI to investigate for NCAA compliance. And if the DCI insists that they were just targeting underage gambling, why were names released of individuals that were of legal age that were gambling (Jirel Brock)?
There are way to many questions that have no answered for yet. The state could be in the pooper for this.

Why not target dorms then? Highest concentration of underage students who might bet.

 

[isufbcurt]

Yeah but seeing them at a Casey's is somewhere public. There's a difference between seeing someone in public and having access to areas that only student athletes/AD people have access to due to participation/involvement in athletics.

Should people on the premium board that have access to special information not be allowed to place bets? They have information the non-premium public doesn't.

 

[wintersmd]

Yeah but seeing them at a Casey's is somewhere public. There's a difference between seeing someone in public and having access to areas that only student athletes/AD people have access to due to participation/involvement in athletics.

So, you are saying that if you see them in public it is not insider information, but if you see them on the practices field, or athletic facility then it is insider information??
What about where the athletes live, or walking to class?
How can you prove insider information when the athletes are still out in public??

 

[isucy86]

I don’t like the conflation of protecting the integrity of the game and the “Integrity” of sports betting. Insider information is not the concern of the government or the NCAA, it is the concern of casinos and bookies. They have controls in place to move lines and, if it’s egregious, limit or ban accounts. They don’t need even more protection.

What Isaiah Lee did is very concerning and the NCAA has a role in setting rules and penalties. I don't think we can separate the integrity of the games or betting. As they have become very interwoven.

Maybe the decision by Isaiah Lee to bet against his team was a BIG ethical leap. But I am not so sure. So I would prefer the NCAA error on the cautious side.

There will always be opportunity to seek out loopholes. But I feel the NCAA has to create some restrictions, otherwise the slippery slope that Lee went down, might not be so slippery.

 

[wintersmd]

Why not target dorms then? Highest concentration of underage students who might bet.

BINGO!!! If this investigation is about underage gambling, why was it focused on the athletic facilities and NOT where most underaged students live.
It is not the DCIs job to enforce or investigate NCAA rule violations.
Now, if the DCI was investigating underaged gambling, and their investigation included the entire campus, or at least where most underaged gambling has the highest activity, ie the dorms, and athletes got mixed up in it, then I am good.
In this case, we have not had any indication that is what happened.
I may be wrong. Maybe there are other students, non athletes that got caught, but I have not seen anything.

 

[3TrueFans]

I would then ask why you are JUST targeting athletic facilities. From my understanding it was an investigation of underage gambling and NOT athletes gambling.
If you are going to target underage gambling at a college or university you do not narrow your scope to just athletes. It is not the job if the DCI to investigate for NCAA compliance. And if the DCI insists that they were just targeting underage gambling, why were names released of individuals that were of legal age that were gambling (Jirel Brock)?
There are way to many questions that have no answered for yet. The state could be in the pooper for this.

Why do you think that?

 

[MJ271]

And yet there are no rules associated with insider betting.

If I have a friend at USC who tells me on Friday night Caleb Williams got injured is not playing this week against Arizona and that this information is not being released by the coaching staff there's no rule or law preventing me from placing a large bet on Arizona to win.

I'll use Chris Williams as an example (Chris I am not in any way saying you do this). Chris is friends with the coaches, especially Otz. Chris also promotes certain betting apps. There is nothing preventing Chris from taking information the various coaches give him and cashing in.

Almost anyone can get "insider" information to the various college sports teams so spare me the integrity crap.

There aren't necessarily laws (though I'd bet that some states do have laws that try to prevent insider info), but I believe most sportsbooks do have rules in their Terms and Conditions against someone making bets with information that is not yet public. Those rules can't really be applied at scale because it would be nearly impossible, but they are there.

For instance, Fanduel (8.17, 8.20, 8.22): https://d38ayms4az88sz.cloudfront.net/SB/IA/2023-08-15T10-00-00.html#partA8 (I realize that link looks weird, but it is the terms and conditions for Iowa Fanduel users)

I'd also add that yes, athletes have friends who can just as easily have insider info. But with the amount of athlete-specific facilities now (dining halls, training rooms, academic centers, etc.), there is very clearly a different level of access for athletes in a different sport, but at the same school than there is for your average Joe who might know a guy that knows a guy, or who might see an athlete on campus or around Ames every once in a while.

 

[ozzie8]

Do you click on every link and take every offer than rolls into your spam folder?

Do you think it’s responsible for sports books to be spamming college athletes?