Has the Rot Started to Set In?

[WhoISthis]

The QB is such an important position in today's football. We had a four year starter that led the program to new successes. With that there was stability. When he left, there was no doubt we would see some reset in the program. That should have been a one year process, but the gambling issue changed that. Unfortunately we spend all of last year getting our QB of the future experience only to lose him. As a result, last year was pretty much a waste. We are very young this year. Playing all these young guys including Rocco and JJ now should benefit us next year and beyond. I do think we are more talented than last year overall, so hopefully we see improvement throughout year and make a bowl game.

Some real fluff there.

7-6 isn’t new success. 9-3 and losing at home to Louisiana is questionable

Judging by how little Purdy improved here, losing Dekkers isn’t much of a setback

As long as Heacock is here we have a higher floor than previous regimes. But until we’re better at details on offense and ST, the ceiling isn’t appreciably different

 

[awd4cy]

Go back and check my track record on Rhoads. I bet you were being the same guy then as you are now.

Funny enough, I think Stormin was the only one on the Rhoads train still after the KSU debacle in 2015.

I get that most on here get emotionally upset when threads like this that pop up, but there has been a concerning downward trend. Most still want to see this year play out, but I definitely have my doubts about anything improving. We will see though.

 

[MugNight]

It was time for Rhoads to go. Mangino was a desperate reach. And Rhoads was recruiting poorly. Our DL was always weak. And our defensive secondary was undersized. We had the advantage of Divisions back then. And we were not even competitive in most games. This is nothing like that. We were losing recruiting battles to weak teams from lesser conferences. Everyone was ready for Rhoads to be fired. Rhoads left no doubt with the debacle at K-State.

Nitpicking here, but divisions went away in 2010. I think Rhoads only had the 2009 season with divisions.

I support all of your other points. Just the D Line depth and performance alone has gone 10000 miles ahead under CMC.

 

[Statefan10]

We've seen the same problems from Campbell over the past eight years, including terrible offensive play calling/schemes and incompetent clock management. Thinking that things are going to meaningfully improve at this point without a coaching change is the definition of insanity.

Firing the best coach of all time after one bad season is also the definition of insanity.

 

[Statefan10]

Assume they defeat Ohio (sort of have to or else the "season is over").

The Big 12 home games are...

Oklahoma State -
TCU -
Kansas
Texas

You'd still need four wins for a bowl at that point...

I'd think you have to 3/4 that above (assuming Texas is back to being a Death Star after 20 years as a pontoon boat). Then pull one road win against a vulnerable team... Baylor? BYU?

Baylor and BYU aren't very good this year. Cincy is also winnable.

 

[LAClone]

Firing the best coach of all time after one bad season is also the definition of insanity.

Let's say in 2024 we magically get another Purdy/Hall/etc. on the team. The stars align. We can go all the way. You're really going to just sit there and smile when--despite those players' best efforts--we fail to hit our ceiling because our coach insists on running some ******** play that has a two-yard average, when we need 10 yards? Or when we waste minutes off the clock/timeouts because we aren't playing a rush offense when we need to?

Such a waste. We deserve better. I've never seen such a passionate, engaged fan base settle for so little.

 

[Statefan10]

Some real fluff there.

7-6 isn’t new success. 9-3 and losing at home to Louisiana is questionable

Judging by how little Purdy improved here, losing Dekkers isn’t much of a setback

As long as Heacock is here we have a higher floor than previous regimes. But until we’re better at details on offense and ST, the ceiling isn’t appreciably different

We made the Big 12 title game the year we went 9-3 though and if we want to get technical, we played two less games than we should have. We should not have lost to Louisiana, but there were literally no one in the stands that game so saying "at home" is a bit disingenuous. Not to mention Louisiana was the best G5 team that year outside of Cincy.

Purdy's QB arch was going to be hard to improve on considering he was insane his first two years. His third year, he led his team to the Big 12 title and his last year he still had a good year. Brock was flat out unbelievable.

 

[cydsho]

There certainly is a lot of rot going on but I don't think it's with our football program.

 

[Stormin]

Funny enough, I think Stormin was the only one on the Rhoads train still after the KSU debacle in 2015.

I get that most on here get emotionally upset when threads like this that pop up, but there has been a concerning downward trend. Most still want to see this year play out, but I definitely have my doubts about anything improving. We will see though.

Why do you feel the need to lie?

And I wanted TJ to be the HC when Hoiberg left and Prohm was hired. Way back then. Always had doubts about Prohm. But gave him a chance when he was hired. Prohm was never a good coach. Wins came from the talent we had in spite of the poor coaching.

 

[Sigmapolis]

We should not have lost to Louisiana, but there were literally no one in the stands that game so saying "at home" is a bit disingenuous. Not to mention Louisiana was the best G5 team that year outside of Cincy.

I seem to remember the team lost a lot of guys for the game and for practice the week or two before that from COVID. Ideally you shouldn't lose to a G5 team at home but in the annals of those defeats doing that in Week 1 of the COVID year to a very good Louisiana squad isn't the most shameful one.

 

[cycloneworld]

Remember when KU fired Mark Mangino because he had a couple of down years after bringing them to their all-time program highs? And then they got 15 years of being back as the doormat of the conference? Some fans need to be careful for what they wish for.

 

[Statefan10]

Let's say in 2024 we magically get another Purdy/Hall/etc. on the team. The stars align. We can go all the way. You're really going to just sit there and smile when--despite those players' best efforts--we fail to hit our ceiling because our coach insists on running some ******** play that has a two-yard average, when we need 10 yards? Or when we waste minutes off the clock/timeouts because we aren't playing a rush offense when we need to?

Such a waste. We deserve better. I've never seen such a passionate, engaged fan base settle for so little.

Touch grass man. Breece had 1800 scrimmage yards and 23 TDs in 2021. We did not execute well that year at all and in 2022 it showed that the talent was covering up the schematic issues more than anything. Changes were made and you're mad because you haven't seen change in two whole games.

 

[Statefan10]

I seem to remember the team lost a lot of guys for the game and for practice the week or two before that from COVID. Ideally you shouldn't lose to a G5 team at home but in the annals of those defeats doing that in Week 1 of the COVID year to a very good Louisiana squad isn't the most shameful one.

Yes, the year was weird overall and it definitely helped us overall but that game isn't one I'm going to circle as some epic failure.

 

[MJ271]

Let's say in 2024 we magically get another Purdy/Hall/etc. on the team. The stars align. We can go all the way. You're really going to just sit there and smile when--despite those players' best efforts--we fail to hit our ceiling because our coach insists on running some ******** play that has a two-yard average, when we need 10 yards? Or when we waste minutes off the clock/timeouts because we aren't playing a rush offense when we need to?

Such a waste. We deserve better. I've never seen such a passionate, engaged fan base settle for so little.

So is this a magical world where the coach is only responsible for in-game decisions and not responsible for evaluating, recruiting, and developing such talent? In that case, maybe I'd make a different decision. But in the real world, I'm okay with letting the guy who got those guys on campus in the first place play a couple more games with his new staff before I decide that he's not worthy of being Iowa State's coach.

 

[ZRF]

I’ve been around for a few coaches and I’m definitely getting that feeling. McDermott, McCarney, Rhoads, Prohm. Not going to include guys like Morgan, Fred, or Chizik as those were different/very short term situations. Obviously Larry was a unique situation as well.

I’ve had this feeling before and while we’re not totally rotted out (there’s a chance CMC could bounce back a la Kirk Ferentz), I think the “rot” has definitely started to sneak in, if only just a little bit, especially with the gambling issue and it’s direct contradiction to the “5-Star Culture” mantra.

Possibly. Like some others it's too early to tell.

There are a lot of things you could say about Nick Saban. He's an *******. He hasn't displayed a lot of character or loyalty in his coaching moves (the way he left multiple schools and the Dolphins). He's a fantastic coach and a phenomenal recruiter. One of the less talked about positive traits is how well he adapts, at least in the college game. He's not afraid to be above self reproach or change philosophies or coordinators. That, along with his coaching acumen and unlimited resources has allowed him to be very successful, and for a very long time.

Many a coach's undoing has been an inability to look at their program, see their own faults, and be willing to both accept and change them. With Campbell he came into a really dire situation and saw a lot of things with the previous regime he wanted to fix. The talent wasn't there. A positive culture was missing. There were zero expectations to win. He changed all of that. Definitely a good hire for the program.

Now we are getting to the stage where other coaches know what he wants to do. His message is no longer "fresh" but stale and he's created some of his own issues within the program. Does Campbell have the ability to both see and be willing to change those defects? Special teams was a constant issue and thus far (this season) the units look much improved. The offensive design has been a constant issue and the early results, especially from the Iowa game, leave a lot to be desired. Campbells game management is still a major issue. Recruiting and developing viable offensive linemen remain an issue.

Outside of general success, and possibly rampant program issues (Briles) the propensity to repeat the same mistakes over and over again seems to be next "on the list" of souring fans, schools, and even players on the staff. The walls aren't crumblin down yet but the cracks are starting to become visible.

 

[CYdTracked]

Amazes me how people are starting to get their pitchforks ready when it wasn't long ago we were worried about losing Campbell to some schools with much more history and success than Iowa State has. CMC still has a 47-43 (.522) record at ISU which ranks him just 10 wins away from McCarney as the winningest coach in ISU history who finished at ISU with a 56-85 (.397) record. Think about that folks, let's compare the winning % to some others ISU has had and that puts him up there with Earle Bruce 36-32 (.529) Clyde Williams 33-14 (.694) and if you want to go all the way back in history to 1902-06 A.W. Ristine 36-10 (.766)

In the modern era compare him to Duncan (.432) Criner (.405) Walden (.335) Chizik (.208 aka Mr. 5-19) and Rhoads (.368) and tell me we are anywhere close to the stink we saw under those guys. Even in our down years under CMC we've been competitive in most of our losses whereas we were consistently getting our asses kicked under just about everyone else that has coached before him when things went downhill. The close losses get frustrating yes but it sure beats the games you were ready to leave at halftime that you knew we were not coming back in that happened pretty frequently many seasons. He's going to get a longer leash than some might think because the results he's had so far he easily could have a much higher winning % here if a few breaks go our way in those close losses. I'll deal with some competitive losses where there is still hope there to turn those into wins with some adjustments where if we were constantly getting our ass kicked consistently then I would have reason to think things are not heading in the right direction.

I remember in the McCarney era we didn't have nearly the talent depth that we do now so if you lost a starter to injury there was a HUGE talent gap from 1st to 2nd string at a lot of positions. Haven't seen that as much under Campbell, it's been next man in and most of those guys have not looked out of place when they had to come in.

 

[ZRF]

So is this a magical world where the coach is only responsible for in-game decisions and not responsible for evaluating, recruiting, and developing such talent? In that case, maybe I'd make a different decision. But in the real world, I'm okay with letting the guy who got those guys on campus in the first place play a couple more games with his new staff before I decide that he's not worthy of being Iowa State's coach.

I'd say this post and the one that was responded to are both true. Campbell deserves more time but if we see the same ******** offensive philosophy and clock management something's going to have to give.

Can't have your head in the sand forever.

 

[awd4cy]

Remember when KU fired Mark Mangino because he had a couple of down years after bringing them to their all-time program highs? And then they got 15 years of being back as the doormat of the conference? Some fans need to be careful for what they wish for.

He got fired for allegations of abusing players.

 

[8bitnes]

Not sure I'd even consider this question seriously until the end of next season at the earliest.

Agreed

 

[Statefan10]

I'd say this post and the one that was responded to are both true. Campbell deserves more time but if we see the same ******** offensive philosophy and clock management something's going to have to give.

Can't have your head in the sand forever.

I truly don't think it's fair to measure how this offense looks after game two against a top 10 defense that's a bad matchup for our scheme. I haven't had problems with our scheme under Matt, rather I think it's been situational play calling under Tom Manning. I was hanging out on Saturday night with an ex player from two years ago on the offensive side, and I asked him if Campbell has a lot of say in the play calling, and he said not really much at all. He'll make decisions on whether to go for it and that's about it.

I think with this scheme though you have to be able to run the ball effectively and you have to be able to utilize your TE's. We have solid TE's, one who's going to be very good, and we brought in an alleged great OL coach. The OL changes won't be seen by us casual fans right away, especially this early.