Principal Financial-Remote work

[isufbcurt]

So seriously explain to me how, without micromanaging (ie daily status calls), someone can manage an young (or not the best) employee if they've got something that's like a 3-4 week project. I'm not being an ass, but it's my first time as a PM, I've got 15-20 people that I'm "responsible" for, and if half of these people were remote I'd be SOL.

One thing I have with my younger engineers in the office is the ability to observe what they are doing, read their body language, etc. If I ask them in a meeting a lot of time they say they are doing fine, etc, but when you observe them at their desk (just in passing) I can tell they are on the struggle bus.

The bold is your problem. You feel you have to micromanage. That drives me nuts, treat people like the professionals they are until they prove they can't be treated that way. Then specifically address with the individual.

 

[isufbcurt]

I hear people say things like this every now and again. Honestly what it makes me wonder the most is are there actually jobs like this in the world? As a salaried employee are you truly regularly done with everything you need to do in 10 hours a week? There is enough work at my job that I could stay busy 80 hours a week if I wanted to. I generally work 40-45 unless there is a deadline coming up, so I'm not crazy haha. I've never been in a position (at least since finishing my training and getting a full work load) where I could honestly sit down at my desk and think "Yep, there is literally nothing for me to do."

If you're someone like this (or anyone in this thread), what type of job do you work?

I am very efficient when I buckle down and work. When I worked for a company I would regularly get all my stuff done early and just sit around looking busy. I would have happily went home when done but the company would have frowned upon that. Plus by looking busy I didn't get stuck doing someone else's work who couldn't handle it themselves.

 

[BCClone]

I am very efficient when I buckle down and work. When I worked for a company I would regularly get all my stuff done early and just sit around looking busy. I would have happily went home when done but the company would have frowned upon that. Plus by looking busy I didn't get stuck doing someone else's work who couldn't handle it themselves.

Why I think commissions are good. Those who work harder and finish more, make more and you don’t have to micromanage because the top performers will reveal themselves.

 

[Gunnerclone]

The key here is intentional ways of interacting with those we don't already identify with, whether those are political differences, race, gender, sex orientation, whatever.

For an introvert like me, good ******* luck coming up with a way for me to voluntarily interact with people I don't already know. My wife would tell you I barely interact with the people I do know lol.

A day without meetings and not talking to anyone for like 10 hours is a dream.

 

[Bigman38]

I hear people say things like this every now and again. Honestly what it makes me wonder the most is are there actually jobs like this in the world? As a salaried employee are you truly regularly done with everything you need to do in 10 hours a week? There is enough work at my job that I could stay busy 80 hours a week if I wanted to. I generally work 40-45 unless there is a deadline coming up, so I'm not crazy haha. I've never been in a position (at least since finishing my training and getting a full work load) where I could honestly sit down at my desk and think "Yep, there is literally nothing for me to do."

If you're someone like this (or anyone in this thread), what type of job do you work?

IT, 10 hours is stretch but there are a lot of jobs in all the companies I've worked at that would take well under 40 hours a week. WFH just motivated people to do that instead of stretching it out over 40 hours because they're chained to a desk in an office.

 

[BryceC]

When and how do you ever meet anyone with differing views or life experience as an adult?

I don’t know what differing views people have at work because I don’t ask about it or want to know.

 

[CycloneErik]

I think you're misunderstanding my point - I'm not saying that the workplace is the only place that you can develop social skills or that we should view the workplace as like.. the best or primary source of community or anything like that. What I'm saying is that in a world where traditional ways of finding community - local involvement, religious involvement, etc are all on the decline, the workplace is the only place left that has any semblance of community for adults in America. It's not ideal, and I agree that you should not look to your employer as a source of good. The best workplaces care about you and respect you as a person, but at the end of the day they have to place the needs of the business over any one employee's personal needs.

I'm also not really talking about social skills in the sense of the ability to make friends, or to interact with people you know in social situations. Work really should not be the place you learn that stuff. I'm talking about social skills in the sense of getting things done with other people while working towards a common goal despite not sharing a personal connection at least at first. That is the core concept that makes every society work and it is something you can learn at work. It's also something you can learn at school, military service, etc. But it's very different from the ability to make or keep friends with likeminded people who are in your social group.

I'm just imagining the world if we go to a long term full remote environment. If you're a kid growing up in that world, how do you meet people outside your family, if your family isn't involved in say a church or some other community organization? Maybe if school is still in person, you meet someone at school? When and how do you ever meet anyone with differing views or life experience as an adult? For most people, the natural tendency is to avoid people who aren't like themselves. What does the world look like? Everyone gets everything delivered to their house? Maybe retail stays "in person"? During the worst of the pandemic, we all needed to stay home but that was temporary - imagine if that had gone on for 20 years. There are measurable negative effects on society from 1-2 years of many things being fully remote. I'm imagining a world where most people sit at home, talk to their family and maybe a few friends they know in person, and spend their time online in echo chambers talking about how everyone else in the world is terrible.

My ideal working situation is most people are hybrid (all employees in office on the same specific days each week) with flexibility to go full remote for say a few weeks or month at a time a time or two a year to allow a working vacation, etc. Some people can go full remote based on their personality/life situation/job needs, and some people are full in person based on the needs of the job.

I guess we could have the kids get jobs.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I don’t know what differing views people have at work because I don’t ask about it or want to know.

I find that if I engage as little as possible I don’t usually find a way to hate people and I think that’s fair.

 

[06_CY]

For my staff that WFH 3 days a week, I keep telling them to shut their computers off each day. A few of them will keep logging in throughout the night if the comps aren't shut down.

 

[simply1]

So seriously explain to me how, without micromanaging (ie daily status calls), someone can manage an young (or not the best) employee if they've got something that's like a 3-4 week project. I'm not being an ass, but it's my first time as a PM, I've got 15-20 people that I'm "responsible" for, and if half of these people were remote I'd be SOL.

One thing I have with my younger engineers in the office is the ability to observe what they are doing, read their body language, etc. If I ask them in a meeting a lot of time they say they are doing fine, etc, but when you observe them at their desk (just in passing) I can tell they are on the struggle bus.

This sounds to me like there are serious culture problems at play. If engineers are hiding their struggles, then you need to look at the culture that's being fostered, not try to micromanage them to success. Why are they hiding struggles rather than seeking help from other engineers?

 

[CyCoug]

Well if you got hired for 100% remote work, you better hope you don't work within 30 miles of Des Moines. During the pandemic, Principal went out on hiring spree where they recruited a ton of IT help across the country. Now if you live within 30 miles of Des Moines, even if you were promised to be 100% full time remote, you now have to go back into the office. So if you live 35 miles from Des Moines, we think you can do your job from home but if you live in beaverdale, get the **** in the office.

Worst insurance experience ever trying to get medically recommended oral surgery approved from them. It took months of fighting and back and forth.

I hiss and cast hexes when I drive past their building in the freeway. Well not so much recently but for a few years I would have if I was a Wiccan.

 

[dosry5]

What’s the difference?

Temperature

 

[ianoconnor]

The hosts on my favorite personal finance podcast think that the main driver behind unlimited PTO is the fact that the company no longer has to pay people that quit for accumulated vacation days.

"Oh, you didn't use much PTO? Well too bad. cya!"

That, and they know people will probably under-utilize it.

H

Yep, exactly. And they don't have to keep the liability of all that accruing PTO on their books.

 

[KnappShack]

Yep, exactly. And they don't have to keep the liability of all that accruing PTO on their books.

I has always been a scam.

 

[Dopey]

Unpopular opinion, but I think some amount of in-office time with peers is necessary for collaboration. It was so much less efficient for me to track down co-workers for alignment on decisions when we were all remote.

If you can truly work by yourself, fine. Work from home. But AI will take your job someday soon.

 

[carvers4math]

I guess we could have the kids get jobs.

That seems to be the plan in here. They can’t drink booze but they can sell it. They can go to school for seven hours and then work for six. Throw in the three plus hours of homework my kids always had in high school and they can get maybe eight hours of sleep and do the same thing all over again. They can have fun with their new friends while they are working the assembly line, doing demolition work, and roofing.

 

[CycloneErik]

That seems to be the plan in here. They can’t drink booze but they can sell it. They can go to school for seven hours and then work for six. Throw in the three plus hours of homework my kids always had in high school and they can get maybe eight hours of sleep and do the same thing all over again. They can have fun with their new friends while they are working the assembly line, doing demolition work, and roofing.

As I understand it, the workplace is where we build community, so everyone wins with this plan.

 

[carvers4math]

As I understand it, the workplace is where we build community, so everyone wins with this plan.

People knew how to socialize their kids in the 1890’s.

 

[BCClone]

That seems to be the plan in here. They can’t drink booze but they can sell it. They can go to school for seven hours and then work for six. Throw in the three plus hours of homework my kids always had in high school and they can get maybe eight hours of sleep and do the same thing all over again. They can have fun with their new friends while they are working the assembly line, doing demolition work, and roofing.

So........you are saying all kids should grow up on a farm?????

 

[NorthCyd]

If you can truly work by yourself, fine. Work from home. But AI will take your job someday soon.

Yeah, so take THAT you work from home losers!