Principal Financial-Remote work

Just to give an example....

"My team and leader are scattered across the country. I'm the only one that lives in the Des Moines metro. So in November, I'll be expected to drive into the office to collaborate by myself with my teammates via Teams working from home"

This is precisely what happened in the local RTO I've mentioned. Some teams only had one person within the 50 mile distance (because again, for a year plus some of 2020-2021, they were hiring outside of the immediate area, local people moved further out, etc.) And then again with it being an unstructured return - so many people were and still are driving in to sit on Teams calls with people who are not in the office.

This is so similar, it was late August this dropped last year - are they rolling this out to managers first to start coming in a month ahead of the plebians?
 
If it's just a handful of otherwise poorly performing employees, sure. If it was widescale behavior?
In that case I actually wouldn't. I think this is a great example of a failed RTO where you are now into micromanaging behaviors. What was the goal of the RTO? What problem was it meant to solve? How was it rolled out? How were people leaders brought in to see this as a positive for their teams? What input and feedback was solicited from people leaders and individual contributors so as to get their buy in, incorporate their needs, and address their concerns?
I'm sure they held a focus group at the office to discuss all of this but the WFH crowd never showed up.:jimlad::eek:
 
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You know how Woody has been rambling about perfectly rational decisions as an individual being detrimental to the whole when talking about realignment? That's generally my view on WFH. I think when you look at the benefit individuals get from WFH it seems great but that value doesn't translate up to society as a whole when everyone does it, if that makes sense. For the record, I can flex home and office depending on projects/meetings and travel.
 
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I went full remote in Sept 2020. First job was about 50% travel. I changed to a different WFH job a year ago. This one is significantly less travel.

I'm with you: I feel less productive at home. Mainly because of my young children. Any trip downstairs for a snack or drink turns into helping out with kids. They also only respect my closed office door about half the time. When I worked in an office, I was good about staying focused and saving personal conversations for times when things were slower.

Don't get me wrong; I love being able to help my wife out in small doses throughout the day. It works well at this stage in life, but I am certainly less productive than I was in the office.

I definitely miss the comradery of the office. I used to love randomly grabbing lunch with a coworker on a nice day. I work in a very small company now and will go days without talking to anyone at work.
I became the at home mom when the kids outnumbered the adults and all got the chicken pox in staggered shifts so one of us was taking off work for a month and a half straight.

The physical job of raising your kids is a million times more exhausting than my job was. There isn’t some nice trip for lunch when not busy, it’s snarf down something before one of them needs a diaper change or potty training or nap or whacks their brother with a toy or whatever. They never sleep at the same time. Best you can do is load them into the car and nap while they are at some library program or something.

Can’t imagine how exhausting physical labor jobs are especially in extreme weather.
 
You know how Woody has been rambling about perfectly rational decisions as an individual being detrimental to the whole when talking about realignment? That's generally my view on WFH. I think when you look at the benefit individuals get from WFH it seems great but that value doesn't translate up to society as a whole when everyone does it, if that makes sense. For the record, I can flex home and office depending on projects/meetings and travel.

What I am robbing society of by working from home?
 
I don’t think WFH is effective if there are young kids around or TV’s are on. I think there needs to be parameters but if those are met it’s not an issue.

I’m a pretty sociable guy in most instances but I can’t remember grabbing lunch with a coworker in the last 10 years. When I’m at work, I don’t want to be there and I’ve always just had the mentality that work is for working.
The kids definitely add a complicating factor. I think it can be managed and home layouts can definitely help. My office is upstairs but the door on my office doesn't latch (old house - I need to fix it). I also could plan better to not go downstairs for drinks or food.

I'm also recognizing that it's summer time. This will all get better for me once school starts.
 
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I became the at home mom when the kids outnumbered the adults and all got the chicken pox in staggered shifts so one of us was taking off work for a month and a half straight.

The physical job of raising your kids is a million times more exhausting than my job was. There isn’t some nice trip for lunch when not busy, it’s snarf down something before one of them needs a diaper change or potty training or nap or whacks their brother with a toy or whatever. They never sleep at the same time. Best you can do is load them into the car and nap while they are at some library program or something.

Can’t imagine how exhausting physical labor jobs are especially in extreme weather.
Kids are a lot! Personaly, the WFH can stretch me thin because I can go days not leaving the house or interacting with anyone other than my spouse and kids. That can wear on me pretty bad. I have to be intentional about scheduling lunch with friends around the area so I can get some socialization.

PS - Nothing beats having a Teams meeting interrupted by your son bursting into the office yelling "Dad! I peed on my leg!"
 
I haven't read every page but I haven't seen much about the most important benefit, happier employees. I'm not more productive, but I'm equally as productive at home while being 10x happier. I'm in my kids life a lot more, my back issues disappeared because now I'm not stuck in a crappy office chair for 8-9 hours a day, saving a lot of money, getting way more exercise because I'm not losing 1-2 hours a day driving.

My company did the same thing, blanket policy, very clearly about control. Lot of old dudes at the top who didn't like having the minions out of the office.

The other issue from losing WFH is talent, lot of industries right now have a very clear line between who is attracting the best talent right now.
 
The REAL root cause, imho, isn't even productivity per se. It's the difficulties inherent in managing people, and the challenge of deciding "did that person do their expected share today or not?". And it's hard to tell if the expectation was fair, and its hard to tell the effort level too.

How to tell if someone who is getting stuff done, could get MORE done?
Or do something more complex instead? How to tell who is slacking off, vs who is working hard but just maybe slower? How to set a deadline goal for a project that is "just right" as opposed to being unrealistic? That's very difficult to be objective in the best of circumstances. Unless you have people doing piecework, which isn't really what we're talking about here.

Example:
had an employee at my pervious employer, let's call it Cockwell Rollins. She was super highly rated at her job, but wanted more challenge. So I hired her to do a more complex job. She was totally worthless. She was a lot less capable than expected, but worse, spent most of the day watching netflix on her phone. Turns out her prior role was a small specialty sliver of work, and no one understood it but her. So it only took her a couple hours a day tops to get it done. But it was always done right, and the customer was happy. And she thought faffing around most of the day was normal. Her managers (the management role was rotational, so no one was ever there more than 12 months) never understood how little she had to do. They thought she was great. Bet her coworkers knew better though. Very typical of large corporations, imho.

Companies are unconsciously aware of how bad they (and their managers) are at this. So they do things like make everyone come in to the office all the time thinking that will help. And it might, a little.

This is the old school mentality that your only working if I can see you. A manager should be able to determine the workload and if more can be added or not. If the manager has no idea, then they're not really managing.
 
I built grain bins and roofed houses for almost 10 years, two of the most physically demanding jobs out there. For the record bins were way, way harder.

Nothing is harder than raising kids. Nothing.
Did a summer as a laborer paving asphalt. absolute a blur of a summer.
 
Kids are a lot! Personaly, the WFH can stretch me thin because I can go days not leaving the house or interacting with anyone other than my spouse and kids. That can wear on me pretty bad. I have to be intentional about scheduling lunch with friends around the area so I can get some socialization.

PS - Nothing beats having a Teams meeting interrupted by your son bursting into the office yelling "Dad! I peed on my leg!"
I always had to keep a change of top at work when nursing after the embarrassment of leaking through the nursing pads when someone had showed up at our office with a baby. Or if my male supervisor who was the only one with a door that would close needed his office when it was time to pump. Was more embarrassing than when oldest kid asked my boss at the office picnic if he could borrow the gum he was chewing cause he broke his plastic spoon.
 
This is the old school mentality that your only working if I can see you. A manager should be able to determine the workload and if more can be added or not. If the manager has no idea, then they're not really managing.

Piling on, that idea "could this person get 'MORE' done, well, that's what promotions and stuff are for.
A competent manager should easily know if deliverables and whatever are getting done. If so, and someone could handle more, well, those could be some positive talks rather than a flyby with "hey,. I've got this that needs done."
 
What I am robbing society of by working from home?

yeah I'm curious on this mindset. Pre industrial revolution it's how most of us would have worked to some degree. Worked very close to/in home with very limited number of people.

Honestly, if I could transition to full time homesteading and build just my hyperlocal community/commune (lol) I'd lean all the way into that.
 
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I haven't read every page but I haven't seen much about the most important benefit, happier employees. I'm not more productive, but I'm equally as productive at home while being 10x happier. I'm in my kids life a lot more, my back issues disappeared because now I'm not stuck in a crappy office chair for 8-9 hours a day, saving a lot of money, getting way more exercise because I'm not losing 1-2 hours a day driving.

My company did the same thing, blanket policy, very clearly about control. Lot of old dudes at the top who didn't like having the minions out of the office.

The other issue from losing WFH is talent, lot of industries right now have a very clear line between who is attracting the best talent right now.

Yep. I know I've hit on aspects of that for sure. The benefit to recruiting and retention has to be huge. Especially when my kids are young - it's a huge huge priority for me in any company I look at.
 
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What I am robbing society of by working from home?
Then soft skills you develop dealing with people you don't want to/ are forced to. Where else are you forced to deal with people outside of your control? Individually, no it's not an issue. You aren't robbing from society. But when everyone starts missing those mundane interactions it does add up.
 

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