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John Amaechi

iccyfan said:
Not that I want to get involved in this debate, but there's plenty to argue about with your "Living Bible Translation" and probably every other English language translation.

I'm a happily practicing Lutheran (ELCA) and often the sermon will include a side-bar on the failure of the English language to truly capture the meaning of the original Hebrew or Greek text. Take it a step further with the dumbing down found in the easy-reading translations, and you really can't cite this as damning evidence. JOMHO!

I don't remember much from my 7th & 8th Grade Confirmation classes (UCC denomination), but Pastor Behle stressed that it was incorrect to interpret the Bible literally. I agree with his rationale from the standpoint that the Bible is a story with a message on how to live your life. For you tech and safety wonks out there, it's a "performance standard" and not a rule book (at least not the New Testament)!
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I would agree with you that parts of the bible are hard to be taken literally, at least from our understanding. I just don't know how else you'd take a verse like that (Leviticus 18:22-Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin). Some things have to be taken literally simply because there is no other way to take them. In my opinion, when it is given as a command or calling something sinful it should probably be taken literally in most cases. I don't want to get into an argument of semantics, because I don't think any of us has all the answers. If you look at any translation of that verse though, I think it spells it out pretty strongly that homosexuality is wrong. I just thought the Living Bible translation made the clearest point. The other translations say something to the effect of homosexuality being an "abomination" or "detestable". I do agree that some parts of the bible might be meant to be read figuratively (such as parts of Revelations), but I definitely think there are parts that should be taken as they are.
 
iccyfan said:
Not that I want to get involved in this debate, but there's plenty to argue about with your "Living Bible Translation" and probably every other English language translation.

I'm a happily practicing Lutheran (ELCA) and often the sermon will include a side-bar on the failure of the English language to truly capture the meaning of the original Hebrew or Greek text. Take it a step further with the dumbing down found in the easy-reading translations, and you really can't cite this as damning evidence. JOMHO!

I don't remember much from my 7th & 8th Grade Confirmation classes (UCC denomination), but Pastor Behle stressed that it was incorrect to interpret the Bible literally. I agree with his rationale from the standpoint that the Bible is a story with a message on how to live your life. For you tech and safety wonks out there, it's a "performance standard" and not a rule book (at least not the New Testament)!
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There's nothing wrong with interpreting the Bible literally where it is meant to be intepreted literally. The Bible is composed of different types of literature: historical narrative, poetry, letters, gospels, wisdom literature, and apocryphal writings, to mention a few. And within those literature types exist a variety of different literary techniques. Some of those types and techniques are meant to be taken literally, others aren't.

There are various English translations that do a sufficiently adequate job of relating the meaning of the original Hebrew and Greek. Personally, I prefer more literal translations, because I like to see what various commentators have to say about figures of speech and difficult phrases, etc. Sometimes dynamic translations, in their quest to translate for "meaning", obliterate the literary devices used by the original writer.

I view the Bible as a book about Jesus Christ (as have many other scholars throughout the history of the church)...part 1: why I need Jesus (God is holy, faithful, and merciful, and I certainly am not no matter how hard I try, which leaves a problem of eternal proportions for me), part 2: what Jesus did for me (sent by God to solve my big problem), and part 3) how I can show my thankfulness for what Jesus did on my behalf (behaving in a manner that pleases God). I just don't see how honest scholarship of the Bible can lead one to the conclusion that homosexuality pleases God.

Anyway...this whole mess is Eve's fault. As such, I think the appropriate gift for women on Valentine's Day, instead of cards and expensive flowers and chocolates, should be a bag of apples...
 
jbhtexas said:
Anyway...this whole mess is Eve's fault. As such, I think the appropriate gift for women on Valentine's Day, instead of cards and expensive flowers and chocolates, should be a bag of apples...
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While probably deserving of a slap on the face, I like your sense of humor.... :laugh8kb:
 
ISUFan22 said:
The gay issue is similar to the racial bigotry this country went through and still endures today. Notice I said similar and not like it - I don't pretend to think the gay issue is on the same level as racial views.
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I see no similarity at all. Race is usually determinable by just looking at someone's appearance. Whereas I can only ascertain one's sexual preference by either having them tell me (and I believe them) or seeing them in the act.

Frankly, I don't want to hear about anyone's sexual proclivities...gay or straight. It's should be kept as a personal matter.
 
isucyclone4 said:
the thing about "issues" are that most at some point get resolved, and then they are no longer "issues."

I understand what you said, but I made that comment, bcuz I wish that this "issue" of gays coming out and gay rights in general were not there and we wouldn't need to talk about it. But they are.

I think it is sad that we don't have the same rights for gays as heterosexuals, i think its sad gay people get murdered simply for the fact they are gay, i think it sad gay people cannot marry one another the way a straight person can marry a straight person, i think its sad some people in this country are still filled with bigotry, and i think its sad so few people are doing so few about issues surrounding gays/lesbians for fear of being lumped into a group that society categorizes as "different" and not a norm.

I hope that really clears up why this "issue" makes me sad.
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Point well said.
 
As for me, I don't really care if somebody is gay or not. I also Do Not understand the gay community being upset over the Snickers Ad. Everybody needs to step back and not be offended by every little thing. I think where some more conservative groups get upset is that gay groups wish to portray their sexual orientation as being "normal" and "mainstream". And it seems they want to receive some sort of blessing or acceptance for their lifestyle. I don't know why that is so important. I don't really pay attention and figure they can do what they want. I don't understand the insistance that some gay groups want of getting acceptance in to mainstream Christian churches. They are free to form their own church and find one that is agreeable to their lifestyle. I don't in any form feel that gays should be subject to harassment and ridicule or given mistreatment. But I also don't feel that they should be able to force themselves in to Churches where many members are not comfortable with the gay lifestyle. This is a completely different issue than skin color. It has more to do with what some people consider to be an immoral form of sex. A taboo (if you will).
 
Stormin said:
I don't understand the insistance that some gay groups want of getting acceptance in to mainstream...
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I believe I understand the GLBT desire for acceptance, but I don't always agree with their tactics. I used to run a Cub Scout Pack in Iowa City. It's well known that Boy Scouts of America has a formal policy that prohibits openly gay leaders (interesting case that went to US Supreme Court), and it's equally well known that IC has a large alternative lifestyle population. While I was running the Pack, we had two separate instances where openly gay couples visited a meeting and indicated interest in having their sons join. The female couple held hands (PDA) at the Cub Scout meeting and one asked me if she could be a den leader should her son join. I replied "certainly, we always have a shortage of den leaders!", and following the meeting that same night, mailed her both youth & adult leader applications. I never heard from her / them again.

I thought then and I'm 99.9% certain now, that Cub Scout Pack 201 was being "set up". If I had "followed the company line", there'd have been an article in the local newspaper for certain! It drives me crazy that inherently good institutions, like Cub Scouts and churches, are being used as pawns for political gain!

In short, I don't really care about the GLBT cause, but they're losing me through the confrontational methods they're using to further their agenda!
 
One thing that I firmly believe in is the fact the as a society we are very apathetic, we allow so many things that we should think are wrong become accepted because we adopt the plan of, at least it doesn't affect me. This belief I feel has led to a moral relativism in america and therefore a moral decline. We often think hey, I am better than that so we allow these things to happen, untill eventually the problem is too big to stop.
 
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6475148?MSNHPHCP&GT1=9131

Tim Hardaway. wow. this is exactly why people like John Amaechi need to come out and tell their stories...Being gay is not a problem, bigotry against it is.

I am so glad Stern is taking action against Tim Hardaway, the youth of today need to realize that bigotry is WRONG. Being anti-gay, anti-women, anti-black, anti-white, w/e is such wasted emotion and hate like this needs to be stopped. The world and times are changing and some people just won't change, but the minds of tomorrow can be changed, and the NBA is doing a great job showing that things such as being anti-gay should be looked down upon, KUDOS TO THE NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION AND KUDOS TO DANIEL STERN ON THIS ONE!!!
 
Why does Tim Hardaway have to like gay people? I think he is also free to have his personal preference just like Amaechi.
 
That's the point tho, he doesn't hate John Amaechi cuz he hates John Amaechi...he hates John Amaechi SOLELY for the reason he is GAY!!!!!!!!

That's what is wrong. People are gonna hate people, that's fact, I hate my boss...but I don't hate my boss because she is black, I just hate her because of her personality.

Sorry but u r totally missing the point bluehooper.
 
isucyclone4 said:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6475148?MSNHPHCP&GT1=9131

Tim Hardaway. wow. this is exactly why people like John Amaechi need to come out and tell their stories...Being gay is not a problem, bigotry against it is.

I am so glad Stern is taking action against Tim Hardaway, the youth of today need to realize that bigotry is WRONG. Being anti-gay, anti-women, anti-black, anti-white, w/e is such wasted emotion and hate like this needs to be stopped. The world and times are changing and some people just won't change, but the minds of tomorrow can be changed, and the NBA is doing a great job showing that things such as being anti-gay should be looked down upon, KUDOS TO THE NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION AND KUDOS TO DANIEL STERN ON THIS ONE!!!
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Stern and the NBA are just doing a little CYOA.

Why do we have to force people to be politically correct?
 
clones_jer said:
Stern and the NBA are just doing a little CYOA.

Why do we have to force people to be politically correct?
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Exactly, why must everyone always have to be politically correct? We live in a pansy world. So Hardaway doesn't like gay people, big deal!?! He doesn't have to and should be free to speak his mind just like those that support Amaechi.
 
Because NOTHING good happens if you allow hate...what if people had tolerated Hitler's hatred for Jews? What if people had allowed the south's hatred of blacks? what if the women's movement never happened?

If you allow hatred, then blacks, women, gays would never get equal rights, we've made great strides, but we are nowhere near where we should be. A man still makes more than women...whites still make more than blacks, etc. etc.

WHY ALLOW HATRED? Its not about being PC! I get annoyed with politcal correctness too, i am not offended by black, you don't have to be called african american. But hating someone just for the reason of their skin color (not race, bcuz their is no such thing as race, except the human race), sexual orientation, etc. is wrong.
 
Stormin said:
I don't understand the insistance that some gay groups want of getting acceptance in to mainstream Christian churches. They are free to form their own church and find one that is agreeable to their lifestyle. I don't in any form feel that gays should be subject to harassment and ridicule or given mistreatment. But I also don't feel that they should be able to force themselves in to Churches where many members are not comfortable with the gay lifestyle. This is a completely different issue than skin color. It has more to do with what some people consider to be an immoral form of sex. A taboo (if you will).
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Re-read your post and tell me it is not different than a racial comment. When you read this think of a person of a noncaucasion decent. Plain and simple, it is different from you so it is bad. Same as racial issues in the past. "But I also don't feel that they should be able to force themselves into churches where many members are not comfortable with the gay lifestyle." They are different, so get out mentallity. They don't beloong in our churches, what's next schools, restaurants. Sound familiar... Tolerance and acceptance my friend. Isn't that the teachings of the church......
 
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