2022 Recruiting/Transfer Class

[NENick]

"People extremely close to the BB program said King was our best big last year."

A couple years ago Javon Johnson was the best pg on the team during his sit-out year. According to sources. I hope King analysis is closer to accurate.

 

[Jkclone15]

"People extremely close to the BB program said King was our best big last year."

A couple years ago Javon Johnson was the best pg on the team during his sit-out year. According to sources. I hope King analysis is closer to accurate.

To be fair to the sources, if they said it after Haliburton went down his competition would have been freshman Tre Jackson and Prentiss Nixon, so not exactly stiff competition there. Although I think Prentiss actually played better as PG than SG.

 

[Cyforce]

"People extremely close to the BB program said King was our best big last year."

A couple years ago Javon Johnson was the best pg on the team during his sit-out year. According to sources. I hope King analysis is closer to accurate.

Johnson is a better PG than Haliburton said no one ever.

 

[ForbinsAscynt]

I’ll preface this by saying I have no clue if we will catch the lightning in the bottle that we did last year although there were certainly some ups and downs in big 12 play but here is how I am looking at next years roster.

Jaz 22 > Jaz 21
Grill 22 > Grill 21
Gabe 22 >= Gabe 21
Ward > Jones 21
Holmes < IB
Osun > Conditt
T. King > Enaruna
Williams > Jackson
Green >= Hunter
E. King >= Walker
Bonus for anything we get from
Jones 22, Watson, Lipsey

Tre King coming in second half of the season is the only real question mark and of course if they can gel like they did last year.

Thoughts? Changes?

 

[Cyforce]

I’ll preface this by saying I have no clue if we will catch the lightning in the bottle that we did last year although there were certainly some ups and downs in big 12 play but here is how I am looking at next years roster.

Jaz 22 > Jaz 21
Grill 22 > Grill 21
Gabe 22 >= Gabe 21
Ward > Jones 21
Holmes < IB
Osun > Conditt
T. King > Enaruna
Williams > Jackson
Green >= Hunter
E. King >= Walker
Bonus from anything we get from
Jones 22, Watson, Lipsey

Tre King coming in second half of the season is the only real question mark and of course if they can gel like they did last year.

Thoughts? Changes?

To be fair Green should be compared to IB and Holmes to Hunter so we are comparing #1 and #2 options to each other.

 

[ForbinsAscynt]

To be fair Green should be compared to IB and Holmes to Hunter so we are comparing #1 and #2 options to each other.

I was more thinking about who would be bringing the ball up but I guess we don’t really know and that’s a fair point.

 

[Clone95]

I’ll preface this by saying I have no clue if we will catch the lightning in the bottle that we did last year although there were certainly some ups and downs in big 12 play but here is how I am looking at next years roster.

Jaz 22 > Jaz 21
Grill 22 > Grill 21
Gabe 22 >= Gabe 21
Ward > Jones 21
Holmes < IB
Osun > Conditt
T. King > Enaruna
Williams > Jackson
Green >= Hunter
E. King >= Walker
Bonus from anything we get from
Jones 22, Watson, Lipsey

Tre King coming in second half of the season is the only real question mark and of course if they can gel like they did last year.

Thoughts? Changes?

Tre king actually gets to play the last 2/3+ of the season. Having practiced with the team for almost a whole year before his first game, he should be able to jump right in.

I do think Jaz made strides the end of last season and can raise his contributions next season, too. I was glad to hear him say on the Corner 3 podcast that he and the coaches are going to work on him being more aggressive offensively next year.

 

[Cyforce]

I was more thinking about who would be bringing the ball up but I guess we don’t really know and that’s a fair point.

Guessing Williams willing be bringing the ball up the majority of the time.

 

[allfourcy]

I don't know about minute allocation but the top guys would be
Green
Holmes
Gabe
Jaz
Osun

With Williams, Grill, Ward as the main backups until King is eligible and then they go 9 deep.

you see Williams as a backup? I guess I thought he'd be the best pg, with Green as a 2' guard.

 

[Halincandenza]

you see Williams as a backup? I guess I thought he'd be the best pg, with Green as a 2' guard.

Yeah. I don't think he is a starting level Big 12 pg yet. I think Green and Holmes as both kind of combo guards will share those responsibilities.

 

[Cyforce]

you see Williams as a backup? I guess I thought he'd be the best pg, with Green as a 2' guard.

Guessing Williams, Holmes and Kalscheur all average around 25 minutes a game. Not sure which one doesn't start.

 

[CyPunch]

King will be a positive contributor when eligible but I don't see him starting in front of Jaz for many of the reasons @Halincandenza listed.

Jaz's intangibles and shooting make him really good in his role. Expanding further on that intangibles point, Jaz just seems to have a great understanding of the system and often makes the right play whether that be a smart pass, a defensive rotation to take a charge on a driver, etc.

 

[WhoISthis]

Yeah. I don't think he is a starting level Big 12 pg yet. I think Green and Holmes as both kind of combo guards will share those responsibilities.

It is wishful thinking that an AAC pg is not yet a Big 12 pg on offense, but an A10 combo and a MVC combo are ready to share the duties. Particularly when it hurts the defense as Williams is a better on ball defender than both.

Holmes wasn’t particularly good at the role at the A10 level even WITH a pg. It’s unlikely that improves in the Big 12, while sharing more pg duty with another combo.


It makes both Green and Holmes worse to not play next to a pg. They are combos, IF playing with a pg. They are the combo types that help make your pg better, not the type to take on the pg role.

All three benefit from Holmes being in the 3rd guard role, where Holmes can be more of an instigator and handler than Gabe, but less than he had to do at St Bonnie. Williams will benefit from playing with 2 combos

I’d be very surprised if Williams wasn’t our primary pg, and equal to freshman Hunter as he will have the benefit of playing next to two combos if needed. If Williams is not quite ready for B12 duty, the answer is to play Gabe less, if Gabe hasn’t improved. Maybe even play more small ball, with more minutes of wing capabilities at the 4.

 

[Halincandenza]

It is wishful thinking that an AAC pg is not yet a Big 12 pg on offense, but an A10 combo and a MVC combo are ready to share the duties. Particularly when it hurts the defense as Williams is a better on ball defender than both.

Holmes wasn’t particularly good at the role at the A10 level even WITH a pg. It’s unlikely that improves in the Big 12, while sharing more pg duty with another combo.


It makes both Green and Holmes worse to not play next to a pg. They are combos, IF playing with a pg. They are the combo types that help make your pg better, not the type to take on the pg role.

All three benefit from Holmes being in the 3rd guard role, where Holmes can be more of an instigator and handler than Gabe, but less than he had to do at St Bonnie. Williams will benefit from playing with 2 combos

I’d be very surprised if Williams wasn’t our primary pg, and equal to freshman Hunter as he will have the benefit of playing next to two combos if needed. If Williams is not quite ready for B12 duty, the answer is to play Gabe less, if Gabe hasn’t improved. Maybe even play more small ball, with more minutes of wing capabilities at the 4.

He was a starting PG on an meh team and wasn't great at it at. He has issues turning the ball over and you put him against Big 12 defenses and it is going to be even worse.
Holmes is a better player and he played point when Lofton was out and did a really good job in both facilitating and not turning the ball over.
Gabe isn't playing less.
I think you are way overrating Williams and what he will bring next year. Also, wouldn't say that Williams is a better defender than Holmes. Just for reference, when you take WIlliams off the team on Torvik, ISU gets better. Also, with Green, the projected top three contributors are Green, Holmes, and Kalscheur in that order. Williams is seventh.

 

[CyPunch]

He was a starting PG on an meh team and wasn't great at it at. He has issues turning the ball over and you put him against Big 12 defenses and it is going to be even worse.
Holmes is a better player and he played point when Lofton was out and did a really good job in both facilitating and not turning the ball over.
Gabe isn't playing less.
I think you are way overrating Williams and what he will bring next year. Also, wouldn't say that Williams is a better defender than Holmes. Just for reference, when you take WIlliams off the team on Torvik, ISU gets better. Also, with Green, the projected top three contributors are Green, Holmes, and Kalscheur in that order. Williams is seventh.

I wouldn't disagree that Williams has warts but do think he will be the starting PG next year. While you certainly hope his offensive game and shot continue to improve, he should have plenty of scoring options around him and we will be relying on him most as a distributor.

Holmes had an abnormal year with a drop in his shooting splits that likely coincides with him having to play on the ball more and takeover some PG duties from Lofton. It's great that he has shown the ability to be used as a combo but Holmes will benefit us most as an off ball initiator like Swarth said.

I strongly disagree with your statement that Williams is not a better defender than Holmes. That's quite a take.

 

[Halincandenza]

I wouldn't disagree that Williams has warts but do think he will be the starting PG next year. While you certainly hope his offensive game and shot continue to improve, he should have plenty of scoring options around him and we will be relying on him most as a distributor.

Holmes had an abnormal year with a drop in his shooting splits that likely coincides with him having to play on the ball more and takeover some PG duties from Lofton. It's great that he has shown the ability to be used as a combo but Holmes will benefit us most as an off ball initiator like Swarth said.

I strongly disagree with your statement that Williams is not a better defender than Holmes. That's quite a take.

What are you basing the Williams is a better defender than Holmes on?

 

[allfourcy]

What are you basing the Williams is a better defender than Holmes on?

Can't answer for someone else, but I think I initially got the impression that Williams was maybe quicker, more athletic, and of course good wing span. That's purely a guess tho.

 

[CyPunch]

What are you basing the Williams is a better defender than Holmes on?

Williams has the reputation of an elite on-ball defender. Williams also has the physical makeup.. 6'5" with a long wingspan. Defensive analytics are also better for Williams although those can not always tell the full story.



It seems like Holmes is a fine defender but I'm not sure I've seen anything that makes me believe he's much better than above average?

 

[CoKane]

AJ Green is visiting Duke today

 

[WhoISthis]

He was a starting PG on an meh team and wasn't great at it at. He has issues turning the ball over and you put him against Big 12 defenses and it is going to be even worse.
Holmes is a better player and he played point when Lofton was out and did a really good job in both facilitating and not turning the ball over.
Gabe isn't playing less.
I think you are way overrating Williams and what he will bring next year. Also, wouldn't say that Williams is a better defender than Holmes. Just for reference, when you take WIlliams off the team on Torvik, ISU gets better. Also, with Green, the projected top three contributors are Green, Holmes, and Kalscheur in that order. Williams is seventh.

You’re relying on hope imo. Projecting A10 and MVC combos (with the benefit of pgs) as giving adequate Big 12 pg play (without a pg), isnt more logical than an AAC full time pg being adequate. And the fit it worse on the former, given Green is our shooter and Williams the best pg defender.


Williams played pg full time in a conference basically Pac12 level. A lot of upside stemming from that being in a bad offense and having played just 3 more games than Hunter. We don’t limit what Hunter is going to be because he was the pg of a poor offense. He may not become what Hunter will become, but he should be similar to what Hunter was.

On the other hand, Green and Holmes were 4th year players, and at most, part time pgs, in lesser conferences. There’s nothing to suggest they’re more capable to handle the Big 12 pg duties. Two weak pgs don’t make 1 sufficient pg.

Holmes didn’t do a very good job as even part time pg. It’s one reason his numbers went down. In a worse conference than Williams and surrounded by better players . He’s not as good in PnR or as a facilitator. He is an okay instigator type. His TO numbers lower because he played MUCH less pg. Williams at pg had a TO number similar to Hunter. Holmes is not the pg defender either. Holmes at the 3 improves his footsteed


If our blind faith is that high on Holmes as a Big 12 combo, the real question is do you get better pg play from a lineup with Williams or Gabe? Shooting is a wash, although Gabe was the most harmful shooter in the conference given his volume. Defense is a wash as Williams is our best pg defender of the four.

What’s Bart Torvik do without Gabe in the starting lineup?