*** Official Iowa State Season Thread ***

[jbhtexas]

I’m not trying to argue with you. The coaching sucks no doubt about it. But some of this is on the players. Rebounding is 90% effort and will. I have seen middle school teams rebound with more intensity. When you have 4 Cyclones around the rebound and the lone TCU guy gets it more than once then I’m not sure what coaches can do there.

I don't know what you can do today, but in the latter part of the previous century, if a bad rebounding game happened, we would do nothing but rebounding drills for the next couple of practices. There was this ugly drill, where it was 5 offense on 4 defense, or 4 on 3, and if the defense didn't get the rebound there would be sprints. Or if the offense didn't crash the boards there would be sprints...there were alot of sprints. I recall about one of those situations per season, usually early on...it seems the problem didn't recur after one of those lessons.

 

[ISUTex]

Stats don’t lie, people can misinterpret them or they can lack context. You can provide enough stats to provide context which is what I believe I did. If you can tell me how the ones I provided need more context, I will gladly take the feedback

Misinterpret? Like you're doing? You're trying to convince people that just because Bolton is 4th in assists that he is some kind of quality point guard when he is in fact, a terrible point guard, who forces too many shots and dribbles the ball off of his own leg a lot more than a college point guard, let alone Big 12 point guard, should do.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Misinterpret? Like you're doing? You're trying to convince people that just because Bolton is 4th in assists that he is some kind of quality point guard when he is in fact, a terrible point guard, who forces too many shots and dribbles the ball off of his own leg a lot more than a college point guard, let alone Big 12 point guard, should do.

"Terrible" is pretty strong for a guy averaging 4.5 assists and 3.1 turnover a game.

That's roughly an ATR of 1.5 -- not great, not freak of nature like future NBA PGs in Monté Morris and Tyrese Haliburtion, but it is not too terrible. Nick only averaged something like 2.0 when playing PG for us.

And that is while having nobody else to draw much attention from him on offense and no reliable, knockdown shooters around him to space the floor and drill the shot when he finds them. Monté was/is a great PG, but he had a lot of help in defenses needing to key on Georges and because the guys around him made their shots.

I get the reasonable version of your point that Bolton isn't a natural PG and ideally he'd be playing off-ball with a real Big 12 point guard, but saying he's "terrible" when he's doing okay playing out of position is wrong.

 

[Clone95]

It's pretty obvious that a lot of people on here are just angry about the state of the program, rightfully so, and that makes them post overly negative responses to any positive post. Saying Bolton is playing out of position at PG isn't enough, you have to call him terrible. Solo has 2 bad shooting games and all of a sudden he's a guy that's never been able to finish, when he was one of the most efficient offensive players in the league up til the OU game. JCL and Harris don't make 3-4 3s and they're all of a sudden this year's "Nixon", even though they are shooing 40% and 37% from 3, on the season, respectively.

 

[CycloneErik]

Can you explain to me how assists per game is a deceiving stat when describing a teams main ball handler? McBride, Nebhard, or McClung seem to be a good comparisons to Rasir. All four are the main ball handlers and considered ball dominant guards. RJ average the most FGA while Mac and Rasir are tied with Miles averaging the fewest. Miles and Rasir average the most assists. For turnovers it goes RJ, Rasir, Mac, then Miles from most to least.

Saying Rasir doesn’t rank very high at distributing is something that just isn’t supported by stats

It's supported by his game.
I didn't look up his assist/turnover ratio. Feel free to include that if it makes your point.

But the key for me is that you have a guy who dribbles time away, then charges on in, and in rare instances, passes. He rarely looks to distribute, which keeps a guy from being a top distributor. Maybe top 10 in the conference, maybe not. Certainly not one of the best.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

A stat that doesn't have Cade Cunningham as one of the best guards in the conference is extremely flawed. Bolton also is bad defensively which most of the top guards in the conference are good on that end as well. I guess we just have different definitions of best in the conference.

What some players do on offense could outweigh the perceived liability on defense, if they are that dynamic. Take a look at Luka Garza for example. Not saying Rasir is on the same level as him, but Luka is no good on defense. He is a total one-way player. Yet nobody complains or talks about it because he puts up good enough numbers on the other end of the floor. I think of Rasir in that regard. On a better team, his lack of defensive prowess would be frustrating and probably leave him on the bench for longer periods of games. But we don't have that luxury, we need what he provides on offense. And offensively, I do think he is a top-level guard in the conference.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Dustin Hogue was 6’4 maybe and was one of the top rebounders in the conference. He was relentless.

Agree, except he was a legit 6'6''

 

[Cyinthenorth]

So worried about next years team, with or without Prohm. Gonna have to rely on small/mid-major retreads in the post. I've had this fear for over a year now that 2021-22 would be rough for us at the 5 with no Solo, unless Prohm addressed the need asap. Well that was a year ago, and we still aren't any more prepared at that position. Going to be more of the same, easy buckets at the rim and offensive rebound buffet for the opposing team

 

[MeowingCows]

So worried about next years team, with or without Prohm. Gonna have to rely on small/mid-major retreads in the post. I've had this fear for over a year now that 2021-22 would be rough for us at the 5 with no Solo, unless Prohm addressed the need asap. Well that was a year ago, and we still aren't any more prepared at that position. Going to be more of the same, easy buckets at the rim and offensive rebound buffet for the opposing team

Rebuild takes time. Gotta be patient with a new staff.

 

[larrysarmy]

Rebuild takes time. Gotta be patient with a new staff.

Agree, but it’s a baaad time to be bad. With eligibility frozen, ease of transfer options and a lame duck staff or brand new staff, I’m not sure who on the team would be a 100% return. A new coach would have to re-recruit committed recruits, current players and compete with a loaded transfer portal where good teams will pluck the best.

 

[CascadeClone]

I don't know what you can do today, but in the latter part of the previous century, if a bad rebounding game happened, we would do nothing but rebounding drills for the next couple of practices. There was this ugly drill, where it was 5 offense on 4 defense, or 4 on 3, and if the defense didn't get the rebound there would be sprints. Or if the offense didn't crash the boards there would be sprints...there were alot of sprints. I recall about one of those situations per season, usually early on...it seems the problem didn't recur after one of those lessons.

We did a different drill called Meat Grinder. 3 guys - one on each block and one in the middle of the lane, coach throws up a shot. Had to get the rebound and then put it back in. Once you got to 10 makes, you could get out. That was the worst thing we ever had to do. Either you rebounded well right away and got out, or else you got stuck in there until you died.

 

[Statefan10]

Imagine this team's roster trying to rebound against the 2013-2014 roster... Monte, Kane, Ejim, Hogue, Georges..

 

[ISUTex]

"Terrible" is pretty strong for a guy averaging 4.5 assists and 3.1 turnover a game.

That's roughly an ATR of 1.5 -- not great, not freak of nature like future NBA PGs in Monté Morris and Tyrese Haliburtion, but it is not too terrible. Nick only averaged something like 2.0 when playing PG for us.

And that is while having nobody else to draw much attention from him on offense and no reliable, knockdown shooters around him to space the floor and drill the shot when he finds them. Monté was/is a great PG, but he had a lot of help in defenses needing to key on Georges and because the guys around him made their shots.

I get the reasonable version of your point that Bolton isn't a natural PG and ideally he'd be playing off-ball with a real Big 12 point guard, but saying he's "terrible" when he's doing okay playing out of position is wrong.

Bolton is a terrible point guard. He's not doing "ok" at PG. He is sucking at it. Walker should've been playing there from the get go. That kid is a natural point guard and could've really used the minutes there earlier this year. Walker is making some mistakes? Sure he is. He's a freshman surrounded by bad players. I mean, maybe we would only be 2-whatever and 0-9 in the Big 12 with Walker starting there. Oh wait, that's what we are with Bolton playing the point in his third year.

Monte was pretty good his senior year without Geroges wasn't he? I hope that is the last time anybody compares Monte to Bolton.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Bolton is a terrible point guard. He's not doing "ok" at PG. He is sucking at it. Walker should've been playing there from the get go. That kid is a natural point guard and could've really used the minutes there earlier this year. Walker is making some mistakes? Sure he is. He's a freshman surrounded by bad players. I mean, maybe we would only be 2-whatever and 0-9 in the Big 12 with Walker starting there. Oh wait, that's what we are with Bolton playing the point in his third year.

Monte was pretty good his senior year without Geroges wasn't he? I hope that is the last time anybody compares Monte to Bolton.

Did Steve Prohm help your girlfriend find religion so now she says no more premarital you-know-what and you're still angry about that? Is that what this is really all about?

Walker has a career 14 assists and 20 turnovers. The idea that he is somehow ready to lead a Big 12 offense or would be better than Bolton playing out of position at PG is ridiculous.

We'd still be winless in the Big 12 (only with even larger margins of defeat).

Monté lost Georges but still had three 40% 3PT shooters in Naz, Matt, and Donovan and one heck of a mismatch in Deonte Burton. He was always surrounded by powerful offensive weapons.

Bolton has never been as a PG.

 

[JM4CY]

Did Steve Prohm help your girlfriend find religion so now she says no more premarital you-know-what and you're still angry about that? Is that what this is really all about?

Walker has a career 14 assists and 20 turnovers. The idea that he is somehow ready to lead a Big 12 offense or would be better than Bolton playing out of position at PG is ridiculous.

We'd still be winless in the Big 12 (only with even larger margins of defeat).

Monté lost Georges but still had three 40% 3PT shooters in Naz, Matt, and Donovan and one heck of a mismatch in Deonte Burton. He was always surrounded by powerful offensive weapons.

Bolton has never been as a PG.

This. Regardless of skill level unless your like a Lebron, your PG is always going to look bad when your team has very limited weapons and terrible/non-existent offensive scheme.

 

[isucy86]

It's supported by his game.
I didn't look up his assist/turnover ratio. Feel free to include that if it makes your point.

But the key for me is that you have a guy who dribbles time away, then charges on in, and in rare instances, passes. He rarely looks to distribute, which keeps a guy from being a top distributor. Maybe top 10 in the conference, maybe not. Certainly not one of the best.

Bolton might not be an efficient PG, but he's doing exactly what CSP and our offense ask him to do. Our offense is mainly PNR, high ball screens and the weave. When our other 3 players in a 4 out system are typically STANDING FLAT FOOTED on the 3 point line- hard for the PG to be a distributor.

Conversely, pretty easy for the opposing team's defenders to keep man/ball discipline when their man isn't moving. Also makes it easy to collapse into the paint and help on Bolton.

What other players do we have that can dribble-drive from free throw line extended and finish in the paint? Coleman-Lands, Johnson, Jackson, Harris, Young, Conditt, Blackwell, Dubar or Walker? Those 9 guys might make a couple such plays a game. Why do you think we are near bottom of all D1 schools in free throw attempts this year?

 

[Gunnerclone]

Imagine this team's roster trying to rebound against the 2013-2014 roster... Monte, Kane, Ejim, Hogue, Georges..

Imagine how many games people were on here whining about how bad those teams were at rebounding.

 

[Irish1]

As true fans, let's all stay as positive as humanly possible, and not take it out on the players who give 100% despite an awful season. They have to feel beat down by their record, their playing, and the covid, they do not need to feel beat down by the fans. I admire the fact that Bolton gives it his all, all of the time! They all seem like good kids!

 

[Old87]

As true fans, let's all stay as positive as humanly possible, and not take it out on the players who give 100% despite an awful season. They have to feel beat down by their record, their playing, and the covid, they do not need to feel beat down by the fans. I admire the fact that Bolton gives it his all, all of the time! They all seem like good kids!

I agree 100%. The Cyclone family needs to support all of our student athletes. They chose to join the Cyclones and deserve our respect. The season may not be going the way that we would like, but these young men are giving it their all knowing that the odds are stacked against them. Cyclones for life.

 

[Tlyon]

Misinterpret? Like you're doing? You're trying to convince people that just because Bolton is 4th in assists that he is some kind of quality point guard when he is in fact, a terrible point guard, who forces too many shots and dribbles the ball off of his own leg a lot more than a college point guard, let alone Big 12 point guard, should do.

My point is not Rasir is a top pg in our conference but he is a middle of the pack one. The stats say he is most certainly in there. You still didn’t address how I was misinterpreting things. I addressed the turnovers and the shots. Rasir is scoring more efficiently than all of miles Mac and RJ