Awesome Assessment of ISU Talent

[RonBurgundy]

This is just some great work by Alex Halsted at 247.

First graph is trend of ISU talent. This is NOT recruiting ratings, but the cumulative rating of the 85 man squad. Just look at how CMC has improved the team.

This second one is even cooler. This is broken down by position. Clear improvement in all units (except Special Teams) across the board. Look at how DL is a strength now, and clearly time for the OL to step up.

https://247sports.com/college/iowa-...crease-247Sports-Composite-ratings-134873682/

 

[cyowan]

Good stuff. Would love to have some context as related to other teams in the Big 12 to see how we measure up now versus in the past.

 

[SCNCY]

The 2016 mark is the first-class Cambell signed, but in 2017, that group was the first class he actually recruited, right?

 

[srjclone]

The 2016 mark is the first-class Cambell signed, but in 2017, that group was the first class he actually recruited, right?

He did some (good) recruiting of his own on the 16' squad, like the bailey twins, I know. 2017 was his first full year of recruiting, you are right.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

The 2016 mark is the first-class Cambell signed, but in 2017, that group was the first class he actually recruited, right?

No they recruited hard when they got here. But yes it was half way into recruiting season.

 

[Cyientist]

This is just some great work by Alex Halsted at 247.


This second one is even cooler. This is broken down by position. Clear improvement in all units (except Special Teams) across the board. Look at how DL is a strength now, and clearly time for the OL to step up.

https://247sports.com/college/iowa-...crease-247Sports-Composite-ratings-134873682/

Was a great piece by Alex. If 2018 was the low water mark for ISU running backs, I'm in!

 

[inCyteful]

This is just some great work by Alex Halsted at 247.

First graph is trend of ISU talent. This is NOT recruiting ratings, but the cumulative rating of the 85 man squad. Just look at how CMC has improved the team.

This second one is even cooler. This is broken down by position. Clear improvement in all units (except Special Teams) across the board. Look at how DL is a strength now, and clearly time for the OL to step up.

https://247sports.com/college/iowa-...crease-247Sports-Composite-ratings-134873682/

This is really neat.

Only problem is, on the first graph, when I look to the left side, I want to puke.

I would like to see P5 average line on there.

Thanks for posting.

 

[madguy30]

This is really neat.

Only problem is, on the first graph, when I look to the left side, I want to puke.

I would like to see P5 average line on there.

Thanks for posting.

And if I'm reading it right, that 2011 roster would have had Chizik's recruits, and I thought he had actually at least recruited pretty well in two years.

Issue being that those teams still had spotty numbers of typical P5 players and now it feels stacked comparatively.

 

[TykeClone]

This is broken down by position. Clear improvement in all units (except Special Teams) across the board.

https://247sports.com/college/iowa-...crease-247Sports-Composite-ratings-134873682/

Special teams really should move slower though? My guess is that the only positions in that group are the long snapper, the punter, and the kickers. How many recruited players do we have on the roster in those positions and how many do we add each year?

 

[VeloClone]

Special teams really should move slower though? My guess is that the only positions in that group are the long snapper, the punter, and the kickers. How many recruited players do we have on the roster in those positions and how many do we add each year?

Not to mention that the best kicker, punter and long snapper in the nation in any class still gets a poor overall rating. Take a look at the ranking of Iowa State's incoming long snapper. The guy is supposedly the best in the nation and his ranking is dismal. They just don't rank those position groups very high to begin with.

 

[twojman]

And if I'm reading it right, that 2011 roster would have had Chizik's recruits, and I thought he had actually at least recruited pretty well in two years.

Issue being that those teams still had spotty numbers of typical P5 players and now it feels stacked comparatively.

Chizik was done after 2008 season. His players were basically the best ones on that team. Osemele, (and most of OL) Leonard Johnson etc...this tells you how bad the Rhoads recruiting was. The remnants of the Chizik classes were bringing up the average!

 

[madguy30]

Chizik was done after 2008 season. His players were basically the best ones on that team. Osemele, (and most of OL) Leonard Johnson etc...this tells you how bad the Rhoads recruiting was. The remnants of the Chizik classes were bringing up the average!

That's what I mean basically. The standouts were good but overall that kind of talent wasn't very common.

 

[CyCloned]

No they recruited hard when they got here. But yes it was half way into recruiting season.

I can't remember exactly what time he was hired, but it was pretty darn late in the process. As I recall he signed a lot of guys that he was recruiting to Toledo, which make prefect sense.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I can't remember exactly what time he was hired, but it was pretty darn late in the process. As I recall he signed a lot of guys that he was recruiting to Toledo, which make prefect sense.

Ya some nobody named David Montgomery.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Chizik was done after 2008 season. His players were basically the best ones on that team. Osemele, (and most of OL) Leonard Johnson etc...this tells you how bad the Rhoads recruiting was. The remnants of the Chizik classes were bringing up the average!

Rhoads being a horrible recruiter was his downfall. He was not a horrible coach, but when the Chizik player had left the program, he did not have his recruits in place to replace them. With Campbell he get both, very good recruiter and very good coach.

 

[CyCloned]

Ya some nobody named David Montgomery.

Hey, I didn't say it didn't turn out well, at least with most of the. guys CMC did an amazing job with that first class, based on the situation he came in to. The OL recruits were not very good in that class, with Foster being the only guy that played much.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Hey, I didn't say it didn't turn out well, at least with most of the. guys CMC did an amazing job with that first class, based on the situation he came in to. The OL recruits were not very good in that class, with Foster being the only guy that played much.

Ya that came out more surly than I intended.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Rhoads being a horrible recruiter was his downfall. He was not a horrible coach, but when the Chizik player had left the program, he did not have his recruits in place to replace them. With Campbell he get both, very good recruiter and very good coach.

I’m still gonna give him a pass for the first three classes. He got the job late, so year one was done. Years 2-3, when they had momentum, he lost out during realignment when it was by no means a certainty Iowa State was going to be in a power 5 conference, nor aligned in any way with the state of Texas.

By the time that all cleared up, they had lost so much momentum there wasn’t a lot of success. Then the program bottomed out.

And you are correct on the last point. Matt is good at recruiting, player development, and on the sidelines.

Let’s hope he wants to make this place his. Get him a statue somewhere in the football complex.

 

[Frak]

With the way recruiting has sped up in the last few years, it would be extremely difficult to put together a class getting hired in December. You’re pretty much guaranteed to lose a whole class

 

[cymonw1980]

This is just some great work by Alex Halsted at 247.

First graph is trend of ISU talent. This is NOT recruiting ratings, but the cumulative rating of the 85 man squad. Just look at how CMC has improved the team.

This second one is even cooler. This is broken down by position. Clear improvement in all units (except Special Teams) across the board. Look at how DL is a strength now, and clearly time for the OL to step up.

https://247sports.com/college/iowa-...crease-247Sports-Composite-ratings-134873682/

It's fun to look at and would agree there is some value here from a big picture stand point. But I would like to see player values/rankings updated over time. These numbers are based on the player's high school ranking. For schools like ISU, a key piece of the equation is how many under valued players they find and how many guys they are able to develop.

For example, David Montgomery and Hakeem Butler brought down the average ranking of ISU's RB and WR groups last year... To me, these rankings are interesting as long as that is the best you have... but as a player starts to contribute at the college level it would be nice to see these rankings reflect the player's current value.

The best recruiting class re-ranking I have seen was on The Athletic. They did a re-ranking of all of the classes 4 years later (side note: don't love their methodolgy since it includes a players freshman year but not their red shirt senior year... not a big deal for Alabama, but misses a key season for developmental programs). This year The Athletic was looking at the 2015 classes, which was Matt Campbell's last class at Toledo. That class went from being ranked 84th to 12th in the re-ranking. tOSU went from 7th to 15th....

Link:
https://theathletic.com/797789/2019...how-the-class-of-2015-ranks-four-years-later/

Toledo write up:

The Group of 5 recruiting class that fared best in our 2015 re-rank belonged to Toledo. This class did not feature big-name superstars, it’s just really deep and well-developed, with 13 players who were starters in 2018. Matt Campbell signed this group in his final year with the Rockets, and the transition from Campbell to Jason Candle was smooth enough that this 24-man class only lost four transfers over four years.


It’s a group that achieved a MAC title in 2017 plus two more nine-win seasons. Johnson was one of four signees who became all-conference players, earning All-MAC honors as both a receiver and returner in 2018. He declared for the NFL Draft, but Toledo could still have nine or more senior starters in 2019 who hailed from this class.

Note: The re-ranking looks at the class and team performance over their first four seasons... You can see that they could have as many as 9 red shirt senior starters from this class contributing this season. So, again, not perfect, but this at least tries to look at class performance, production vs. High School player rankings.