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Reclassifying 4A football

SEIOWA CLONE said:
Back to the Des Moines, schools, here is an off the wall idea. There are 5 Des Moines schools, all under the umbrella of the DM school district. Why not designate each school a magnet school for a certain area of study.
East becomes the Arts HS
Lincoln the Atheletic HS
North the vo-tech HS
Roosevelt math and science
Hoover foreign language
A person could get a general ed HS diploma from any of the schools, but understands that if I want to take upper level math or science that would only be offered at Roosevelt. Take everyone that wants to play sports, you go to Lincoln, and that is the only school that has sports teams. East would have the band to play at the DM School district games.
Students at each school would have a curriculum for their interest. So in Lincoln you would do the basic ed classes, but spend more of your day working on your sport. Or at East playing your band instrument or working on acting or whatever.
Hell, it might seem crazy, but it might just work.
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We already have a magnet school that does that: Central Campus. The system we have works well imo. The only issue is athletics. That could be solved if we just went back to the old system of the dmps schools and Ottumwa being in their own conference/region. Unfortunately, the suburb schools had to go blow it up
 
VeloClone said:
I really don't care, but I bet there will be a huge outcry when it is a small public school that is forced to jump up a level or two.
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I don't care that much either. I'm personally biased toward the inner city schools getting pounded by the suburbans.
I went to Hoover and we routinely got our asses kicked because while we had a reasonably high enrollment compared to the rest of the state, no one gave a rip at our school. We had 20 Jrs and Srs my senior year. We had to use sophomores to be able to practice.

Then we'd play a team like Dowling with their entire sideline filled and ended up being 50 pointed.

The divisions need to be based on performance rather than enrollment.

For those 2A schools that are that much better than their competition, moving up to 3A shouldn't be that monstrous of a leap. And if they do struggle they can be moved back down after a few years.

What is the accomplishment of winning 10 years in a row if you never play anyone near your level of ability? It's like me beating my 12 year old at basketball over and over and thinking I'm a basketball champion.
 
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cyhiphopp said:
I don't care that much either. I'm personally biased toward the inner city schools getting pounded by the suburbans.
I went to Hoover and we routinely got our asses kicked because while we had a reasonably high enrollment compared to the rest of the state, no one gave a rip at our school. We had 20 Jrs and Srs my senior year. We had to use sophomores to be able to practice.

Then we'd play a team like Dowling with their entire sideline filled and ended up being 50 pointed.

The divisions need to be based on performance rather than enrollment.

For those 2A schools that are that much better than their competition, moving up to 3A shouldn't be that monstrous of a leap. And if they do struggle they can be moved back down after a few years.

What is the accomplishment of winning 10 years in a row if you never play anyone near your level of ability? It's like me beating my 12 year old at basketball over and over and thinking I'm a basketball champion.
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I understand this point of view and agree with it to some extent. Take Clear Lake for example. They were really good in all sports and were competing in all sports. They won 3A baseball in 2014 and then dropped down to 2A in all sports the following year and dominated the state tournament. A school like that, even though enrollment might not be very high, they did not need to drop down to 2A for any reason IMO. But when you're talking about non-suburban 3A schools making the jump to 4A, it would be extremely difficult for them to succeed, especially in sports like basketball and football.
 
Statefan10 said:
I understand this point of view and agree with it to some extent. Take Clear Lake for example. They were really good in all sports and were competing in all sports. They won 3A baseball in 2014 and then dropped down to 2A in all sports the following year and dominated the state tournament. A school like that, even though enrollment might not be very high, they did not need to drop down to 2A for any reason IMO. But when you're talking about non-suburban 3A schools making the jump to 4A, it would be extremely difficult for them to succeed, especially in sports like basketball and football.
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Do they really not have the athletes to compete in 4A? If they dominate 3A they at least most likely have the participation and support. The bottom rung of 4A right now is pretty low.
 
SEIOWA CLONE said:
Yes we did. The girl I was talking about I coached in MS bb, she and a teammate were two of my best players. Both ended up at Fairfield, batting if I remember right 4th and 5th on that state runner up team for Fairfield. At one time the 2nd girl had a her older sister at Pekin where her dad taught, the brother at Cardinal and the mom and the her at Fairfield. And they lived in Agency.
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Hey! Cardinal grad here (Go Comets!).

Although my time was waaaay back in the early 80s. We were still a 2A program back then. Had a 7-2 record in football in 1980 but couldn't get close to a playoff spot, since there were only 8 qualifiers statewide and it was all based on a point system.

(Looking up something just for grins, and it's astounding to realize there were 435 high school football teams in Iowa in 1979, and all of them were 11-man. Last year there were a total of 331 football teams, and several of those would be district-combined programs ... and 65 of those total were 8-man.)
 
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cyhiphopp said:
I don't care that much either. I'm personally biased toward the inner city schools getting pounded by the suburbans.
I went to Hoover and we routinely got our asses kicked because while we had a reasonably high enrollment compared to the rest of the state, no one gave a rip at our school. We had 20 Jrs and Srs my senior year. We had to use sophomores to be able to practice.

Then we'd play a team like Dowling with their entire sideline filled and ended up being 50 pointed.

The divisions need to be based on performance rather than enrollment.

For those 2A schools that are that much better than their competition, moving up to 3A shouldn't be that monstrous of a leap. And if they do struggle they can be moved back down after a few years.

What is the accomplishment of winning 10 years in a row if you never play anyone near your level of ability? It's like me beating my 12 year old at basketball over and over and thinking I'm a basketball champion.
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I can get on board with it being based on performance - but it needs to be across the board rather than singling out some schools because they are private and leaving others to dominate at the lower level because they are public.

For the record I went to school at small and midsized public schools - currently Class A and 2-A.
 
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cyhiphopp said:
Do they really not have the athletes to compete in 4A? If they dominate 3A they at least most likely have the participation and support. The bottom rung of 4A right now is pretty low.
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Right I understand competing with the bottom, but competing at a higher level against the upper echelon wouldn't be close. Dowling would beat a Solon / Bishop Heelan by 50 almost every single time in football. Great 3A basketball teams maybe be able to beat a few great 4A teams but it happening on a consistent basis wouldn't happen.
 
Statefan10 said:
Right I understand competing with the bottom, but competing at a higher level against the upper echelon wouldn't be close. Dowling would beat a Solon / Bishop Heelan by 50 almost every single time in football. Great 3A basketball teams maybe be able to beat a few great 4A teams but it happening on a consistent basis wouldn't happen.
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Teams like Dowling, the Ankenys, Valley, Waukee, would be in a new 5A in that scenario I believe.

Or you would move the lower 4A schools down to 3A and let that sort itself out.

I think the biggest issue is that the HUGE schools and the upper level private schools are way outclassing a large chunk of 4A.
 
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cyhiphopp said:
Teams like Dowling, the Ankenys, Valley, Waukee, would be in a new 5A in that scenario I believe.

Or you would move the lower 4A schools down to 3A and let that sort itself out.

I think the biggest issue is that the HUGE schools and the upper level private schools are way outclassing a large chunk of 4A.
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Oh 100%. There is definitely an advantage for those schools compared to the rest and it shows.
 
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KidSilverhair said:
Hey! Cardinal grad here (Go Comets!).

Although my time was waaaay back in the early 80s. We were still a 2A program back then. Had a 7-2 record in football in 1980 but couldn't get close to a playoff spot, since there were only 8 qualifiers statewide and it was all based on a point system.

(Looking up something just for grins, and it's astounding to realize there were 435 high school football teams in Iowa in 1979, and all of them were 11-man. Last year there were a total of 331 football teams, and several of those would be district-combined programs ... and 65 of those total were 8-man.)
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You played under Bob Gerard I bet. And would know Ronnie H. I started teaching there in 1990, and left in 2010. If you have not been back you would not recognize the place facility wise.
 
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Gonzo said:
In wrestling, yep, they do.
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They have a kick-butt coaching staff and team. Do you really think they recruit? I doubt it, but I bet parents that have high talent wrestling kids and want them to succeed and have the best opportunity move to the district or open enroll if it is possible.
 
VTXCyRyD said:
They have a kick-butt coaching staff and team. Do you really think they recruit? I doubt it, but I bet parents that have high talent wrestling kids and want them to succeed and have the best opportunity move to the district or open enroll if it is possible.
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Sure it's a two-way street with parents/kids looking, but yes the coaches are actively involved with encouraging high-level kids to switch to SEP. I know two. Do I blame them? Not necessarily, especially for wrestling where the coaching is THAT much better and it's such an individualized sport. It was just pretty rich hearing SEP ***** about Williams moving to Dowling, when they do the exact same thing to other schools in other sports.

Completely different world from when I was HS. Going to play football for another school and bailing on the brothers I'd been playing with since 6th grade would've been unthinkable.
 
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