To all the Prohm Haters...

[CYdTracked]

Can't believe we still have to deal with this stupid argument after every game 4 years into Prohm now. The guy wants to be here, is doing a great job of recruiting, and is knocking off Top 10 teams yet people still find things to ***** about and keep bringing up Fred in the process. I'm thankful for the years Fred gave us but he didn't want to stay here for the long haul and moved on and so should others. We have a quality coach who essentially had to suffer through 1 down year due to Fred leaving him a 2 year gap in HS recruiting which left an unbalanced roster of classes. Ton only have to endure 1 bad year vs at least 2 he's brought in some very good recruiting classes so far and closed that gap very quickly so it wasn't a prolonged down period while the roster was rebuilt. Imagine if he has missed on either last year's or this year's freshmen class, we'd have a lot more issues to be talking about right now than how we finished a game out beating the #8 ranked team on the road.

Does this team need to work on a few things? Definitely, no one is denying that. It is frustrating to struggle to inbound the ball sometimes, not hit a critical FT in a tight game, or be smart with the ball in the closing minutes of a game but I don't see Prohm making excuses for that and everything he's said so far this season regarding those things I'm sure they work on it extensively in the film room and practice but the bottom line is the players still have to execute what they are coached on. They played unselfish basketball last night and had better ball movement on offense and you don't get that kind of play without some good coaching that players are buying into.

I was getting a kick out of the announcers talking about how these were the 2 best FT shooting teams in the conference then watch ISU go 13-19 for .684 and TT 6-18 for .400. I hope we aren't on pins and needles all season with this team at the FT line, had a couple crucial misses again last night too.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I hate this narrative. So you want the standard to be what it's been since Prohm has been here save for one season? Watching Fred's team was a voluntary heart attack. No lead was safe.

UConn basically beat ISU really badly save for a strong push at the end, and since that team was hardly dominant no one knows if a healthy Niang actually matters. They were also down like 8 points with little time left before a couple of 3s dropped to UNC and got a break with a UNC injury that took some of their size advantage away.

I think some people have it installed in their head that Fred won a lot more games in March than he really did. I can see why they make those mistakes, however.

2011-2012

The nostalgia...
"We kicked UConn's butt! We sent Jim Calhoun out with an L!"
"Royce was the best player on the court against Kentucky! Remember that dunk?"

The reality...
UConn was dysfunctional by that point, and while we gave a historically great Kentucky team a challenge, they ultimately still won the game 87-71.
If we were consistent throughout the season, we would have had a better seed than 8/9 and avoided a terrifying opponent like Kentucky until the second weekend.
One big dunk does not undo a bad seed and early exit.

2012-2013

The nostalgia...
"**** you, Aaron Craft! The officiating at the end was terrible!"
I swear I have heard CW say something like, "After Ohio State, that region was wide open!" something like 5-6 times on the radio and podcasts by now.

The reality...
Same as the season before -- be more consistent throughout the regular season, and you are off the 7/10 line and avoid a strong opponent in the first weekend.
Craft hit that shot. I am sorry, but a good player made a big play to win the game.
Close games in the NCAA tournament are inherently like that. We have no idea what ISU would have done in the region later against Arizona or Wichita State.
Acting like we made a deep run this year is preposterous.

2013-2014

The nostalgia...
"Georges broke his foot! We were about to win a national championship!"
"No way we do not beat UConn and go to the Final Four without Georges!"

The reality...
I honestly think some people act like we won a national title this season.
UConn was playing out of its mind that March -- Napier was 4/6 from three, Daniels put up 27 on us, and Boatright was 2/3 from three. They were just hitting everything against everybody. Those three have never played that well before or since, for that matter.
They might not sleepwalk the second-half if Georges is around and the game is more competitive; we were in for a dogfight with a hot team.
Even if we won that game, we are up against Michigan State the next round, a program still coached by Tom Izzo with a record of 29-9, the winners of the Big Ten tournament, and they have some dudes like Gary Harris, Adreian Payne, and Denzel Valentine.
They had just beaten a VERY good UVA team the weekend before, too.
If you get to the Final Four, you still need to get through Florida and Kentucky.
Great team that was on a roll, but we do not know what would have happened, and giving us a "mental national championship" ignores what actually happened.
I know they were hot and won the Big 12 tournament, seemed to have it all figured out, but they went 11-7 against the Big 12. They lost plenty of games.
Georges' foot was the worst luck ever, but we have to accept it for what it was.

2014-2015

The nostalgia...
BDJ throws a chair at Hoiberg at halftime, we lose to UAB, and Fred goes to the Bulls.

The reality...
BDJ throws a chair at Hoiberg at halftime, we lose to UAB, and Fred goes to the Bulls.

 

[CySmurf]

And you know who you are...

Coach Fred Hoiberg, for as much of a legend as he deservedly is, will NEVER coach at Iowa State again, and the sooner you dumba$$es can get that through your thick skulls the better.

Steve Prohm is our coach. He may not have played basketball at Iowa State or be the hometown hero, but he is our coach. And he is a very good coach. Is he perfect or beyond reproach or above criticism? Of course not.

But he is our coach, and if you cannot support him or the program as long as he coaches, and if you hate him so much that you never post on here after big victories like tonight or against Kansas but take the time to scream for his head after a loss like against KSU, guess what? You are NOT a Cyclone fan and whatever ISU apparel you might own needs to be donated to kids in Africa. Time to be a fan of Iowa State, not a fan of one man.

Rant over. Had to get it off my chest.

That was borderline open letter!

 

[jsb]

I'm certainly not going to be critical of Fred for winning that UNC game, but the rest of your post does speak to the fact that a certain percentage of fans hold Prohm to a much higher standard, and an unfair one at that, then Fred Hoiberg was held to.

It’s the classic of following after success. In many ways, following a successful coach is harder than following a dumpster fire.

Prohm isn’t perfect. But neither was Fred or Johnny or Larry or Tim.

Also, I get sick of the idea that when we win it’s because the other team played like **** and when we lose it’s because we played like ****. Our play last night was part of why Texas tech played poorly (also prohm seems to have beards number). Kansas State playing good is part of why they won on Saturday.

 

[Cyrealist]

This is where it seemed to start with some people I know. They were obsessed with Lard's minutes and couldn't accept that maybe Cam wasn't earning them. It just had to be that Prohm is a complete moron who isn't playing somebody who should be on the floor at all times. Tried pointing out that there could be a lot of behind the scenes factors playing into it and it could have a negative effect on the team as a whole to just play him anyways. That was dismissed with something along the lines of not every college athlete is a choir boy yada yada yada so I've given up trying to help them see the light.

There should be a balance of the coach maintaining control and requiring that players represent the team and university appropriately and getting through to players so they can be contributing to the team. With McKay and it seemed like we might be going down the same road with Lard, people wondered about Prohm's ability to get through to some players. I am definitely not a Prohm hater but I am at times a Prohm skeptic. We cannot win conference championships playing like we played against KSU and Baylor. We beat a very, very good team on the road last night, and Prohm deserves a great deal of credit for getting the guys ready to play and for the scheme that enabled the win. The only major concern was inbounding the ball, but no game is perfect. The next challenge is whether we can play at the high level of last night consistently. I would be ecstatic to say my skepticism was proven wrong. For what it's worth, Hoiberg never won a conference championship.

 

[pdxclone]

Is it unique to Prohm or did the previous coaching staff have similar games on the road?

No. Critical with Hoiberg when it came down to the last seconds and whether to foul or not (to allow a 3 pt attempt or not)

 

[JDDDCy]

Thanks 58, 99-00 I believe we started like 1-2 or 2-2 with an absolutely horrible loss to one of the worst Drake teams in the last 30 years.(there have been many bad Drake teams in the time frame) That was coming off LE's first season, which I believe was a losing season or right around 500. If that happened this year the Prohm home would probably have an angry mob standing outside their door.
Sometimes I wonder what this board would be like evaluating Floyd's offensive schemes. For those that are too young games played in the 50's were common. The Fans Only or Cyclone Illustrated sites were pretty quiet after a loss.

 

[Cyrealist]

Kansas State playing good is part of why they won on Saturday.

No doubt, but our failure to close out the game was a big reason as well. We went what? three and a half minutes without scoring?

 

[TXCyclones]

And you know who you are...

Coach Fred Hoiberg, for as much of a legend as he deservedly is, will NEVER coach at Iowa State again, and the sooner you dumba$$es can get that through your thick skulls the better.

Steve Prohm is our coach. He may not have played basketball at Iowa State or be the hometown hero, but he is our coach. And he is a very good coach. Is he perfect or beyond reproach or above criticism? Of course not.

But he is our coach, and if you cannot support him or the program as long as he coaches, and if you hate him so much that you never post on here after big victories like tonight or against Kansas but take the time to scream for his head after a loss like against KSU, guess what? You are NOT a Cyclone fan and whatever ISU apparel you might own needs to be donated to kids in Africa. Time to be a fan of Iowa State, not a fan of one man.

Rant over. Had to get it off my chest.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I can't do it without you

I know. I’ve tried to explain to you how little you truly know.

Much like the players, it’s time for you to take ownership

 

[CloneFan4]

1.) When criticizing Prohm, posters on here no longer reference Hoiberg and wish he was here, other than a few troll posts/threads.

2.) The only people that bring him up are the people who are insecure in their belief of the man. If you are a devout Prohm fan, form a valid, thoughtful argument as to why a poster is wrong in his critique of the man.

3.) Criticism does not automatically equate to hate of coach and it doesn't make you any less of a cyclone fan. Rooting for the failure of the team to see Coach Prohm fail does make you less of a cyclone fan.

4.) OP screams of little man syndrome.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I'm taking a break from this board but since I assume most of this post was directed at me I'll take the time to respond. I don't hate Prohm and there are certainly some great things he's done here.

#1. I love what he's doing with high school recruiting. There is really nothing to work on here, he's pulling in highly touted recruits who are NBA talent. You need those type of guys to win conference championships and make deep NCAA runs.

#2. I love what he's doing with out defense. Last year was a down year, but in the other 3 years you can clearly see an emphasis on defense. Defense travels so I expect us to continue to compete well on the road.

#3. I think he's a good guy, he wants whats best for the program. I've been questioning his disciplinary tactics but its shown to get results and help build character with out players.

Now for the other part. The main reason I get so frustrated and vocal after losses like the other night are 2 main reasons:

#1 WE ARENT PROTECTING HILTON! I REPEAT, WE ARE NOT PROTECTING HILTON. This is honesty my main beef with him. The last four years we've let numerous teams we were better than come in and push us around in front of our home crowd. This is completely unacceptable. With Fred you knew there is no way a team is coming and winning unless they were clearly more talented or they got hot shooting. The only teams I remember losing to were Missouri and Kansas when they were Top 10 programs, and Baylor got us once because they shot out of their minds one night.

Now, mid tier teams are coming in and winning at an alarming rate. We would blow #1 teams like Kansas and Oklahoma out of the water, then turn right back around and lose to to West Virginia and Baylor. I wont even get into the disaster that last year turned into. The Milwaukee loss aside, which shouldnt happen to any coach here, we were completely blown out alot last year at home.

I've been to games the last 4 years and its just not the same atmosphere anymore. Something has changed and we need to find a way to get that back. If we ever want to dethrone Kansas its a must you protect your home court. Games where we gave away like on Saturday are completely unacceptable unless you are ok with going 11-7 ever year.

#2 His in game adjustments and is inability to adapt are extremely frustrating to watch. We've lost 3 games this year in the exact same manner and almost had a 4th last night. This has already been discussed in depth so I dont have much more to ad, but he needs to improve on his in-game coaching skills. He doesnt seem like he has ability to adapt to change unless his back is completely against the wall. An example of this is in 2016-17 when we were struggling with 4 guards. It took him until February 4th that year before he finally realized we were getting killed inside and adding even 1 competent post completely changed our season. Another example is the Wiggington thing right now, the guy should be starting.

#3 His transfer recruiting has been extremely average compared to the talent Hoiberg was bringing in now. Hoiberg brought in at least one player each year that was equivalent to a 5 star one and done guy. Prohm hasnt shown the ability to be able to do that. Shayok and Jacobson are by far his best transfers and they are up there with some of Hoibergs best, but overall he's had far more busts than serviceable Big 12 players. I think landing Shayok, Jacobson, and Nixon is a huge step in the right direction for him.

So in closing, start making Hilton an automatic loss for teams again, start working more on in-game adjustments and finishing games, and continue getting high quality transfers and Prohm should be here for a long time and expecting NCAA tourney teams every year.

I also apologize for being so negative on here, the last couple games were 4 years of frustrations boiling over. It was the complete epitome of everything that I think has gone wrong in the last 4 years, losing in Hilton, to a team we were clearly better than and who didnt even have their POY up to full speed, and the way we couldnt close out down the stretch was a little too much frustration for me.

PSA: tl;dr

Why do you always say “you’re done” or now “taking a break from the board” but you never do? You’re a troll. That’s fine. But don’t be a liar.

 

[madguy30]

I think some people have it installed in their head that Fred won a lot more games in March than he really did. I can see why they make those mistakes, however.

2011-2012

The nostalgia...
"We kicked UConn's butt! We sent Jim Calhoun out with an L!"
"Royce was the best player on the court against Kentucky! Remember that dunk?"

The reality...
UConn was dysfunctional by that point, and while we gave a historically great Kentucky team a challenge, they ultimately still won the game 87-71.
If we were consistent throughout the season, we would have had a better seed than 8/9 and avoided a terrifying opponent like Kentucky until the second weekend.
One big dunk does not undo a bad seed and early exit.

2012-2013

The nostalgia...
"**** you, Aaron Craft! The officiating at the end was terrible!"
I swear I have heard CW say something like, "after Ohio State, that region was wide open!" something like 5-6 times on the radio and podcasts by now.

The reality...
Same as the season before -- be more consistent throughout the regular season, and you are off the 7/10 line and avoid a strong opponent in the first weekend.
Craft hit that shot. I am sorry, but a good player made a big play to win the game.
Close games in the NCAA tournament are inherently like that. We have no idea what ISU would have done in the region later against Arizona or Wichita State.
Acting like we made a deep run this year is preposterous.

2013-2014

The nostalgia...
"Georges broke his foot! We were about to win a national championship!"
"No way we do not beat UConn and go to the Final Four without Georges!"

The reality...
I honestly think some people act like we won a national title this season.
UConn was playing out of its mind that March -- Napier was 4/6 from three, Daniels put up 27 on us, and Boatright was 2/3 from three. They were just hitting everything against everybody. Those three have never played that well before or since, for that matter.
They might not sleepwalk the second-half if Georges is around and the game is more competitive; we were in for a dogfight with a hot team.
Even if we win that game, we are up against Michigan State the next round, a program still coached by Tom Izzo with a record of 29-9, the winners of the Big Ten tournament, and has some dudes like Gary Harris, Adreian Payne, and Denzel Valentine.
If you get to the Final Four, you still need to get through Florida and Kentucky.
Great team that was on a role, but we do not know what happened, and giving us a "mental national championship" ignores what actually happened.
Georges' foot was the worst luck ever, but we have to accept it for what it was.

2014-2015

The nostalgia...
BDJ throws a chair at Hoiberg at halftime, we lose to UAB, Fred goes to the Bulls.

The reality...
BDJ throws a chair at Hoiberg at halftime, we lose to UAB, Fred goes to the Bulls.

Haha on the last part...I'll still hold that I want to know what happened with Matt Thomas that game too. Iirc he was playing a great game and didn't play a second in the 2nd half or something.

On point with everything else.

Also wasn't ISU down by a bunch to Ohio State until a late come back?

 

[Cyched]

I'm taking a break from this board but since I assume most of this post was directed at me I'll take the time to respond. I don't hate Prohm and there are certainly some great things he's done here.

#1. I love what he's doing with high school recruiting. There is really nothing to work on here, he's pulling in highly touted recruits who are NBA talent. You need those type of guys to win conference championships and make deep NCAA runs.

#2. I love what he's doing with out defense. Last year was a down year, but in the other 3 years you can clearly see an emphasis on defense. Defense travels so I expect us to continue to compete well on the road.

#3. I think he's a good guy, he wants whats best for the program. I've been questioning his disciplinary tactics but its shown to get results and help build character with out players.

Now for the other part. The main reason I get so frustrated and vocal after losses like the other night are 2 main reasons:

#1 WE ARENT PROTECTING HILTON! I REPEAT, WE ARE NOT PROTECTING HILTON. This is honesty my main beef with him. The last four years we've let numerous teams we were better than come in and push us around in front of our home crowd. This is completely unacceptable. With Fred you knew there is no way a team is coming and winning unless they were clearly more talented or they got hot shooting. The only teams I remember losing to were Missouri and Kansas when they were Top 10 programs, and Baylor got us once because they shot out of their minds one night.

Now, mid tier teams are coming in and winning at an alarming rate. We would blow #1 teams like Kansas and Oklahoma out of the water, then turn right back around and lose to to West Virginia and Baylor. I wont even get into the disaster that last year turned into. The Milwaukee loss aside, which shouldnt happen to any coach here, we were completely blown out alot last year at home.

I've been to games the last 4 years and its just not the same atmosphere anymore. Something has changed and we need to find a way to get that back. If we ever want to dethrone Kansas its a must you protect your home court. Games where we gave away like on Saturday are completely unacceptable unless you are ok with going 11-7 ever year.

#2 His in game adjustments and is inability to adapt are extremely frustrating to watch. We've lost 3 games this year in the exact same manner and almost had a 4th last night. This has already been discussed in depth so I dont have much more to ad, but he needs to improve on his in-game coaching skills. He doesnt seem like he has ability to adapt to change unless his back is completely against the wall. An example of this is in 2016-17 when we were struggling with 4 guards. It took him until February 4th that year before he finally realized we were getting killed inside and adding even 1 competent post completely changed our season. Another example is the Wiggington thing right now, the guy should be starting.

#3 His transfer recruiting has been extremely average compared to the talent Hoiberg was bringing in now. Hoiberg brought in at least one player each year that was equivalent to a 5 star one and done guy. Prohm hasnt shown the ability to be able to do that. Shayok and Jacobson are by far his best transfers and they are up there with some of Hoibergs best, but overall he's had far more busts than serviceable Big 12 players. I think landing Shayok, Jacobson, and Nixon is a huge step in the right direction for him.

So in closing, start making Hilton an automatic loss for teams again, start working more on in-game adjustments and finishing games, and continue getting high quality transfers and Prohm should be here for a long time and expecting NCAA tourney teams every year.

I also apologize for being so negative on here, the last couple games were 4 years of frustrations boiling over. It was the complete epitome of everything that I think has gone wrong in the last 4 years, losing in Hilton, to a team we were clearly better than and who didnt even have their POY up to full speed, and the way we couldnt close out down the stretch was a little too much frustration for me.

Thanks for articulating your thoughts.

Important to know most of the Prohm defenders have said that he is not above reproach, and there are parts of his coaching that still needs some work.

The losses at Hilton are definitely frustrating from a fan perspective. But there has been a trade off; between last night and the 2016-17 team I can’t remember past ISU teams being this salty on the road.

His in-game adjustments do need a bit of work, but he always seems to have a solid game plan for each game. I don’t like watching the slow it down approach at the end, but I can see why he’s wanting to limit the number of possessions with the way these games have been going defensively, and wanting to squash the other teams momentum. Start finishing the job by getting a bucket at the end and this becomes less of an issue.

Hoping he’s turning the corner with finding transfers, as Shayok and Jacobson have been tremendous additions. Again, there’s been a trade off with the improved recruiting.

What was encouraging to me was that we won a road game against a tough top 10 opponent, with a couple key players still out and still not playing to our potential.

The roller coaster can be a little tiring, but I’m excited to watch this team continue to improve, and to see how we look in February and March.

 

[CloneFan4]

I know. I’ve tried to explain to you how little you truly know.

Much like the players, it’s time for you to take ownership

You're so cute when you get worked up. Appreciate you keeping me in your thoughts <3

 

[IASTATE07]

1.) When criticizing Prohm, posters on here no longer reference Hoiberg and wish he was here, other than a few troll posts/threads.
They don't reference Hoiberg's ability to draw up inbounds plays when criticizing Prohm's inability?

2.) The only people that bring him up are the people who are insecure in their belief of the man. If you are a devout Prohm fan, form a valid, thoughtful argument as to why a poster is wrong in his critique of the man.
Not true in the slightest.

3.) Criticism does not automatically equate to hate of coach and it doesn't make you any less of a cyclone fan. Rooting for the failure of the team to see Coach Prohm fail does make you less of a cyclone fan.
Look at some of these posters that criticize Prohm posting history and it's been weeks or months since they last posted. They literally only post to criticize Prohm when things are bad. If they posted regularly when things are good and bad I wouldn't have such an issue with it.

 

[CloneFan4]

Provide more than 3 non-troll/**** post examples. Perhaps I don't scour this site as well as I used to.

 

[UnCytely]

On the other side, I really do not understand the nostalgia for Hoiberg. If Prohm were to leave somehow (which I doubt), I would actually have reservation about Hoiberg coming back. For one, he purposely abandoned us, for a job was that not necessarily guaranteed in terms of longevity. Second, he totally lost control of his program at the end. What coach has one of his own players throw a chair at him? (Actually, I didn't know about that incident until just now; I had to work that day, and couldn't even listen to the game on the radio) That game was a humiliating loss to a team we should easily have been by 20 points. It was Hoiberg's "Hampton".

 

[fsanford]

I'm sticking to my guns. Prohm knows how to game plan and make in game adjustments at halftime. However, down the stretch once again we allow a team back in the game. We start to take the air out of the basketball while standing near half court to run the shot clock down. Got to stay on the gas through the end and that game is won by 8 or 10 points.

It would be interesting to see what kind of stats there are about teams giving up leads on the road at the end of games when playing high end opponents, I think you would find that most games get very tight at the end, and teams ahead will give up those leads or nearly give them up what 80% of the time.

Playing peer schools you will have ebbs and flows. Its a sport where if you shoot 50% as a team you are considered great, seems only baseball has a worse percentage level for excellence.


Heck I have seen teams up by like 27 and nearly blow it, (as he thinks back to ISU vs WV a few years back)

Here's the thing, the color guy, who I assume knows something and he mentioned ISU was getting good looks and not hitting the shot. that was inside the 4 minute mark. Was he wrong?

Regarding taking the air out of the ball if we take the first open look then people gripe about that don't take a shot too early

Even the great Bill Self, who is the master of managing the last 5 minutes, had to sweat out a 3 ball at home at the end of the game after leading Texas by over 10 points for most of it

They hit a shot and made a block and hit a layup, seems they finished well, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

 

[mj4cy]

End of the game could have been cleaner, but glad these guys bounced back the way they did after two hard losses. Not something we always saw in the past.

I think Tech being a top 10 team has as much to do with that as anything. Credit to them, their defense looked like a nightmare to move the ball around late that second half.