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Seemingly never ending Iowa MBB thread (still going.....)

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jereseib said:
I wasnt "begging" anyone to leave me alone. I can take care of myself and can deal with repercussions of what I say unlike alot of people on here.

Stats are important and Im a big stats guy but they arent the be-all end-all metric. Ive watched Iowa play alot of basketball this year. Ellingson is good for one thing, making a couple wide open 3's per game. Williams is a shooting guard who cant shoot being asked to play point guard. He's just not a good player. If he was Fran wouldnt have pulled the plug on him so early in the season and started a true Freshman.

That being said, I 100% agree with what you said about Wadley. The guy is a stud, putting up huge ypc averages against stout defenses in the Big 10. Those guys are delusional if they cant see hes a good running back who has an NFL future. Warren had a good freshman season but couldnt even start the next year, not exactly something for Cyclone fans to be bragging about.
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I appreciate the follow-up and further explanation, but will have to agree to disagree - particularly with regards to Ellingson's offense - when comparing to Jackson. If Ellingson is only good for making a couple wide open 3's a game, how is Jackson any better? Jackson has made 4 more total shots (3 more three-point shots) while averaging two more minutes a game....and is shooting 40% overall and 40% from 3. Ellingson is shooting 51% overall, and 55% from 3. If you really are a big stats guy, then you are really going to have to make a better case for why you think Jackson is so much better. I'm guessing you are judging based on the eye test / overall athleticism and not actual productivity / offensive success. As far as defense, I have no idea how good Jackson is....if I'm looking at steals (as an indicator), they are almost equal. Could Jackson be a better defender overall, sure.....but I am still not seeing how his defense overshadows the current disparity on offense (40% vs. 50% overall; 40% vs 55% from 3).

Also, completely agree on Wadley. He's going to be really good this year.
 
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FrostyMitchellMilitia said:
I appreciate the follow-up and further explanation, but will have to agree to disagree - particularly with regards to Ellingson's offense - when comparing to Jackson. If Ellingson is only good for making a couple wide open 3's a game, how is Jackson any better? Jackson has made 4 more total shots (3 more three-point shots) while averaging two more minutes a game....and is shooting 40% overall and 40% from 3. Ellingson is shooting 51% overall, and 55% from 3. If you really are a big stats guy, then you are really going to have to make a better case for why you think Jackson is so much better. I'm guessing you are judging based on the eye test / overall athleticism and not actual productivity / offensive success. As far as defense, I have no idea how good Jackson is....if I'm looking at steals (as an indicator), they are almost equal. Could Jackson be a better defender overall, sure.....but I am still not seeing how his defense overshadows the current disparity on offense (40% vs. 50% overall; 40% vs 55% from 3).

Also, completely agree on Wadley. He's going to be really good this year.
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I will also agree with you to an extent on Williams. The jury is definitely still out on whether he can develop into major minutes player. I like his potential as a defender (at top of the press/ zone) and ability to drive, but he really needs to learn how to shoot a pull-up jumper and how to finish at the rim. He definitely has a ways to go.
 
CyTwins said:
Wadley sucks. Not as bad as Ellingson does at defense but close
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FrostyMitchellMilitia said:
I appreciate the follow-up and further explanation, but will have to agree to disagree - particularly with regards to Ellingson's offense - when comparing to Jackson. If Ellingson is only good for making a couple wide open 3's a game, how is Jackson any better? Jackson has made 4 more total shots (3 more three-point shots) while averaging two more minutes a game....and is shooting 40% overall and 40% from 3. Ellingson is shooting 51% overall, and 55% from 3. If you really are a big stats guy, then you are really going to have to make a better case for why you think Jackson is so much better. I'm guessing you are judging based on the eye test / overall athleticism and not actual productivity / offensive success. As far as defense, I have no idea how good Jackson is....if I'm looking at steals (as an indicator), they are almost equal. Could Jackson be a better defender overall, sure.....but I am still not seeing how his defense overshadows the current disparity on offense (40% vs. 50% overall; 40% vs 55% from 3).

Also, completely agree on Wadley. He's going to be really good this year.
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Yes I am, I just think Jackson is much better overall than Ellingson, he just looks alot more polished and confident when he is on the floor than Ellingson. I wasnt ripping them just to annoy Iowa fans, I just feel neither are good players.

The Wadley stuff I do find amusing though, the guy is a stud, I dont care what some of these guys think of him. Didnt he pretty much beat Michgian by himself? I just remember him having a huge game against one of the best defenses in college football.
 
This is almost exactly where almost the whole world expected them to be. They are an outside fringe top 25 team, and still have chances to jump as their freshman Big progresses. Almost every publication said they were giving them the benefit of the doubt by ranking them preseason and most fans didn't expect them to stay in the top 25 this year. Most knew the 3 year ranked stretch was likely to come to the end.

Still hopeful that the post can develop to serviceable and make them a true ranked team again. That is a down year for ISU over a pretty good stretch of years. I'll take it. The only expectation that wasn't met was maybe playing down to too many teams and having it bite us too often. But it was clear this was going to be a very up and down year when your best option is a freshman in the post.
 
NATEizKING said:
Down year for ISU = 7 seed. Best year ever for Fran = 7 seed. ;)
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I think next year will be Iowa State's down year. Iowa State starts four very productive and damn good senior perimeter players and has two other seniors who either start or play big minutes. That's a pretty experienced and senior laden team. I don't think many people expected them to be down this year.
 
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SportsFan10 said:
I think next year will be Iowa State's down year. Iowa State starts four very productive and damn good senior perimeter players and has two other seniors who either start or play big minutes. That's a pretty experienced and senior laden team. I don't think many people expected them to be down this year.
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Weiler-Babb and Donovan Jackson have both played more minutes then Bowie and Holden.

Hell... Holden hasn't even played 300 minutes. I think they will probably survive the loss of those 2.
 
iahawks said:
That's fine, but you would be wrong. The NCAA does say it counts and they are the ones that make it fact.
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So as an Iowa fan you were happy and officially thought they made it to the tourney? Alot of my Iowa fans thought of the play-in game as a disgrace considering what happened the last month. I dont really know anbody that was pleased or thought they officially made the tourney after playing some crap SEC team on a Tuesday night while nobody was watching on TRU TV.

The real tourney starts that Thursday, always has, always will imo.
 
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jereseib said:
So as an Iowa fan you were happy and officially thought they made it to the tourney? Alot of my Iowa fans thought of the play-in game as a disgrace considering what happened the last month. I dont really know anbody that was pleased or thought they officially made the tourney after playing some crap SEC team on a Tuesday night while nobody was watching on TRU TV.

The real tourney starts that Thursday, always has, always will imo.
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Not saying I was happy or not, just saying that the NCAA officially recognizes Iowa as a tournament team. That is fact and can't be argued with.
 
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As far a jackson goes. He is not the go to for any stat category on this team we have better 3 point shooters we run plays for, we have an all world distributer, so when he does shoot it is often not a play run to him. And he is primarily a distributer, but when you have possibly the best distributer in the world, taking up those assists even a couple assists a game beside him is impressive to carve out. I think he's shown he is 2x the player Elliningson is and those stats show it. When Ellingson is in he is the shooter.

Like has been said Ellingson is good at one thing and pretty bad at the rest. Jackson is a solid basketball player and does everything carving out stats from a team stacked with his roles. Ellingson is in a situation where he can be the featured shooter, of course his percentages are going to be high. That and he just flat out plays against significantly better competition.
 
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iahawks said:
Not saying I was happy or not, just saying that the NCAA officially recognizes Iowa as a tournament team. That is fact and can't be argued with.
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Well, of course the NCAA will say that, the tourney is their cash cow and it was their idea to implement stupid play-in games anyways as a way of making more money. Anybody that watches basketball knows those games are a complete joke and is embarrassed their team fell into that game.

Win that game and make it to Thursday or Friday then I'll consider them a tourney team.
 
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SportsFan10 said:
I think next year will be Iowa State's down year. Iowa State starts four very productive and damn good senior perimeter players and has two other seniors who either start or play big minutes. That's a pretty experienced and senior laden team. I don't think many people expected them to be down this year.
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You think Iowa will be better than ISU next year even though we will have better guards and a better coach?
 
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